smoking room ventilation

[BigCat]

This is probably a long, stupid question, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway and see what the response is.

My wife and I bought a house about 6 months ago. We live in Michigan and it is freezing right now. My smoking has dropped dramatically, as it usually does this time of year. There is a den off of our bedroom that would make a perfect smoking room for me, except that it is horribly sealed, as in there is actually a hole carved out in the wall so that you can see out into the foyer (my wife put a big vase in it as decoration for the foyer). The door into the bedroom is a pocket door. The doors leading to the living room are double doors that can be configured to seal well. So on opposite sides of the room I have a poorly sealed pocket door and a hole in the wall.

If I were to have an exhaust fan installed in the attic above the ceiling (it would be easy installation - the attic is immediately above this room), would it create enough suction to clear the room of the smoke before it ventured out into the rest of the house through the door and the hole? Would it create some sort of pressure that would prevent the smoke from leaving the room? Would it make a difference at all if I did a cold air return with a heater?

I assume the answer is that I have to seal up the room or the smoke will go everywhere. I'm not opposed to that - I just expect it is going to take more money to do that than it will to have a couple fans put in. Just thought I'd ask to see if I can take a shortcut and get that smoking room quicker than I otherwise would. Thanks for any input! And I can take ridicule for asking if it is deserved.

[Knip23]

You might be better off just putting a box fan in that hole leading outside. Tabb and i smoke in the garage all the time and we have heaters set up in there and a box fan pushing all the smoke out wife complains a little but not much. other than that a Exhaust fan should work just depends on how much $ you want to spend.

[Volt]

Hal (hk3) has built the last man room that I can remember as wel las a few others. If your search foo is good they should pop up. My google foo is good, but this forum not so much at times.

A guess on my part, without better sealing your gonna have to push a lot of air up and out. Might lose more in heat $$$ than trying at least some moderate sealing. There are a few different sized cigar fume eliminators, I cannot remember the name but many here have had good results with them. I'm sure someone will see this and put out the name brand. But as one BOTL stated, it's not just the fumes, the ashes that float will carry a lot of smell, vacumn alot and/or something your smoking over that can be easily cleaned.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Knip23

You might be better off just putting a box fan in that hole leading outside. Tabb and i smoke in the garage all the time and we have heaters set up in there and a box fan pushing all the smoke out wife complains a little but not much. other than that a Exhaust fan should work just depends on how much $ you want to spend.

Yea, unfortunately the hole doesn't lead outside - it leads into the rest of the house. The windows in the room also are verticle crank out types, so I can't put a box fan in them. That would be what I would do for the time being if I could. Thanks for the thought though.

Originally Posted by Volt

Hal (hk3) has built the last man room that I can remember as wel las a few others. If your search foo is good they should pop up. My google foo is good, but this forum not so much at times.

A guess on my part, without better sealing your gonna have to push a lot of air up and out. Might lose more in heat $$$ than trying at least some moderate sealing. There are a few different sized cigar fume eliminators, I cannot remember the name but many here have had good results with them. I'm sure someone will see this and put out the name brand. But as one BOTL stated, it's not just the fumes, the ashes that float will carry a lot of smell, vacumn alot and/or something your smoking over that can be easily cleaned.

You're probably right about that. I suppose I would be drawing heated air from the whole house and pushing it out. That could add up.

Given that, how about a ceiling mounted smoke eater? I presume the energy loss would be minimal with something like that.

[Volt]

OK, the search gods were nice to me today. The brand to look for is Csonskas. Search this word on the forum ansd see the write ups. A lot of good comments. Might save on pushing the heat into the attic/outside.

[croatan]

I put a 800ish cfm inline exhaust fan in the ceiling over where we usually smoke in my house. It cleans the air out of the entire house very well, with anywhere between 1 and 15 smokers. I wouldn't worry about sealing up your room at all.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Volt

OK, the search gods were nice to me today. The brand to look for is Csonskas. Search this word on the forum ansd see the write ups. A lot of good comments. Might save on pushing the heat into the attic/outside.

Thanks, I'll have to check them out. I'm a little leary of the ozone thing, which I think these generate, but I need to read up on that more. I appreciate you searching that for me.

Originally Posted by croatan

I put a 800ish cfm inline exhaust fan in the ceiling over where we usually smoke in my house. It cleans the air out of the entire house very well, with anywhere between 1 and 15 smokers. I wouldn't worry about sealing up your room at all.

That sounds encouraging. Do you notice much by way of increased energy costs? I hadn't thought about that until Volt brought it up.

[croatan]

Originally Posted by BigCat

That sounds encouraging. Do you notice much by way of increased energy costs? I hadn't thought about that until Volt brought it up.

That hadn't actually crossed my mind until you brought it up. The same time I had that done, I put in a new high-efficiency HVAC system, new windows, and re-insulted the attic, so my electric bill dropped considerably around the same time. I can't imagine it makes enough of a difference for you to care about, though. I only run it when we're smoking (though it sometimes runs all night if we're drinking while we're smoking and I forget to turn it off ). It's also variable speed, so if it's just me sitting around having a cigar, it stays on a relatively low setting.

[hotreds]

If you have a window you can open, I'd put a fan as close to it as possible along with some air filters and you should be fine. Even a fan close to the window will push out a lot of the smoke, the filter should take care of most of the rest of it. You might have slight leakage if you're not sealed too well, but another filter in the room adjacent should fix that problem fairly quickly. Check out http://www.holmesproducts.com/ for some good ones.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by croatan

That hadn't actually crossed my mind until you brought it up. The same time I had that done, I put in a new high-efficiency HVAC system, new windows, and re-insulted the attic, so my electric bill dropped considerably around the same time. I can't imagine it makes enough of a difference for you to care about, though. I only run it when we're smoking (though it sometimes runs all night if we're drinking while we're smoking and I forget to turn it off ). It's also variable speed, so if it's just me sitting around having a cigar, it stays on a relatively low setting.

This is great to hear! Thanks.

Originally Posted by hotreds

If you have a window you can open, I'd put a fan as close to it as possible along with some air filters and you should be fine. Even a fan close to the window will push out a lot of the smoke, the filter should take care of most of the rest of it. You might have slight leakage if you're not sealed too well, but another filter in the room adjacent should fix that problem fairly quickly. Check out http://www.holmesproducts.com/ for some good ones.

Excellent lead, thanks. I'll have to check these out. I figured I'd have to work a filter in there somewhere as well regardless of what I do.

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I assume the answer is that I have to seal up the room or the smoke will go everywhere. I'm not opposed to that - I just expect it is going to take more money to do that than it will to have a couple fans put in.

You definitely want to create a pressure differential, lower pressure in the smoking room than the rest of the house. To do that, you'll need an exhaust fan like you said. The size of the fan will depend entirely on how well the room is sealed. You could try guessing, or you could call an HVAC shop and ask them to help you out. They can run a few easy tests to figure out how much flow will be required to maintain a reasonable pressure differential, and size your exhaust fan accordingly. The hole might be a problem for you. Maybe put a sheet of glass (or plexiglass) one the den side of the hole? That way it's still functional, yet sealed. You may need to seal any HVAC ducts in that room, otherwise your fan could pull air through the duct instead of through the doorways.

Originally Posted by BigCat

Do you notice much by way of increased energy costs? I hadn't thought about that until Volt brought it up.

The fan itself will only cost you pennies per hour. For a 2,000 sqft house, figure a total volume ~16,000 ft3... 800 cfm will turnover all the air in your house in 20 min. Depending on where you live, I'd guess you may see an impact. This is where appropriate fan sizing comes into play. Choose a fan too small, smoke will migrate through your house. Choose too large, your HVAC may have a hard time keeping up in the rest of the house.

[Wharf Rat]

I suggest you look hard at the suggestion to close the window into your living space. To stop smoke through a large opening will require a lot of air flow. This greatly increases the size of the exhaust needed. And that big airflow through the opening will probably be blowing things around on your wife's side of the opening.

[Caymus]

I have the IQAir Health Pro Plus. It is a HEPA air filter machine that filters out dust, pet dander, etc. The charcoal filter also does quite a good job filtering out the cigar smoke in my man room. It's not cheap, but it does a lot more than just act as a smoke filter.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Mark C

The hole might be a problem for you. Maybe put a sheet of glass (or plexiglass) one the den side of the hole? That way it's still functional, yet sealed.



The fan itself will only cost you pennies per hour. For a 2,000 sqft house, figure a total volume ~16,000 ft3... 800 cfm will turnover all the air in your house in 20 min. Depending on where you live, I'd guess you may see an impact. This is where appropriate fan sizing comes into play. Choose a fan too small, smoke will migrate through your house. Choose too large, your HVAC may have a hard time keeping up in the rest of the house.

Our plan is to eventually put some type of nice glass in there to seal it off. We don't have any kids yet, but my wife is worried about one climbing into this and jumping into the foyer when we eventually do. Thanks for your thoughts on the fan. That makes sense. I will probably consult an HVAC guy before I make a move.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Wharf Rat

I suggest you look hard at the suggestion to close the window into your living space. To stop smoke through a large opening will require a lot of air flow. This greatly increases the size of the exhaust needed. And that big airflow through the opening will probably be blowing things around on your wife's side of the opening.

Now that would be something to see!

Originally Posted by Caymus

I have the IQAir Health Pro Plus. It is a HEPA air filter machine that filters out dust, pet dander, etc. The charcoal filter also does quite a good job filtering out the cigar smoke in my man room. It's not cheap, but it does a lot more than just act as a smoke filter.

Do you vent the smoke as well, or does the filter act as a smoke eater?

[Smokin Gator]

I chose not to vent the Gator Cave as I would lose too much AC. I went with a filter by Blue Air. Here is the link:

http://www.blueairstore.com/blueair-400-series.php

It has performed well for me. You can certainly smell the smoke in the room when I am smoking. After I am done though, I spray some Febreeze air freshener and the next day you really can't smell much at all.

With the hole in the wall to the next room, though, I don't think that would be a good option for you.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Smokin Gator

I chose not to vent the Gator Cave as I would lose too much AC. I went with a filter by Blue Air. Here is the link:

http://www.blueairstore.com/blueair-400-series.php

It has performed well for me. You can certainly smell the smoke in the room when I am smoking. After I am done though, I spray some Febreeze air freshener and the next day you really can't smell much at all.

With the hole in the wall to the next room, though, I don't think that would be a good option for you.

That does look good for when I can seal off the opening. Thanks

[Hitagain]

Depending on how well your house is sealed up, you may need to add make up air if you add a oversized exhaust fan. Use a ERV/ HRV just drawing air from the smoking room and returning air to the Return air of the HVAC system. This would exhaust the smoke filled air to the outside and replace the air with fresh air coming in and most ERV /HRVs will recover about 70% of your Heating/ cooling costs. I would think you would need to filter the exhaust air entering the ERV/ HRV to protect the heat exchanger. Just an idea....

[jledou]

From my experience the Csonka will not prevent the smoke from going to other areas of the house, but they do a very good job of cleanning the smell out of the room/house it just may not catch up completely until 30 minutes to 1 hour after you are done.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Hitagain

Depending on how well your house is sealed up, you may need to add make up air if you add a oversized exhaust fan. Use a ERV/ HRV just drawing air from the smoking room and returning air to the Return air of the HVAC system. This would exhaust the smoke filled air to the outside and replace the air with fresh air coming in and most ERV /HRVs will recover about 70% of your Heating/ cooling costs. I would think you would need to filter the exhaust air entering the ERV/ HRV to protect the heat exchanger. Just an idea....

I think the lesson here is that I should consult an HVAC specialist, because as I know what you are talking about, I am entirely incapable of doing this on my own! Thanks.

Originally Posted by jledou

From my experience the Csonka will not prevent the smoke from going to other areas of the house, but they do a very good job of cleanning the smell out of the room/house it just may not catch up completely until 30 minutes to 1 hour after you are done.
Posted via Mobile Device

That's what I thought. I'll probably pick something like it up if and when I get around to resolving the sealing/ventilation issue.