Advice for B&M owners anyone?

[awsmith4]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

I'm not justifying ANYTHING. But when you've gone to conventions, know what wholesale is, and then see those sticks in certain stores for 25% more than your regular B&M's, yeah..something is up and it stinks.


$40 45th Padrons

$20 Nostrosos

$25 Camacho Triple Maduros


These are why I don't go into certain stores. When something is above MSRP, who is the real thief in that equation?

Often times cigars in event areas are bought from a retail outlet not a wholesaler or a manufacturer. Every time a cigar changes hands (as well as many other products) it often needs to be doubled to make a margin that is profitable. Without profit there is no point in business. If the market will bear a $40 Padron then that is not gouging, that is providing for your customer base. Cigars are not a necessity so no one is forced to pay high prices. The only way a person would be a thief is if they misrepresented what they were selling. If they have a cigar clearly priced and a customer is willing to buy that cigar at that price then that is the free market at work. If the seller was peddling fakes or rebanding lower grade cigars then that would constituent thievery.

With that said it does trouble me to go to a local shop that has higher prices than their competitors, know that they get them from the same source, and then hear them complain that no one is buying and the other guys are undercutting them. If your competition is pricing lower maybe you need to as well. Yes, you may not make the same margin per cigar but a low margin is better than no margin from lack of sales.

Originally Posted by awsmith4

Often times cigars in event areas are bought from a retail outlet not a wholesaler or a manufacturer. Every time a cigar changes hands (as well as many other products) it often needs to be doubled to make a margin that is profitable. Without profit there is no point in business. If the market will bear a $40 Padron then that is not gouging, that is providing for your customer base. Cigars are not a necessity so no one is forced to pay high prices. The only way a person would be a thief is if they misrepresented what they were selling. If they have a cigar clearly priced and a customer is willing to buy that cigar at that price then that is the free market at work. If the seller was peddling fakes or rebanding lower grade cigars then that would constituent thievery.

With that said it does trouble me to go to a local shop that has higher prices than their competitors, know that they get them from the same source, and then hear them complain that no one is buying and the other guys are undercutting them. If your competition is pricing lower maybe you need to as well. Yes, you may not make the same margin per cigar but a low margin is better than no margin from lack of sales.

Oh, I completely understand what you are saying, and completely agree. I don't steal, and would never justify it, I just thought I might throw out a reason I could see someone justifying it over.

I simply just don't offer gougers my money.

[awsmith4]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

Oh, I completely understand what you are saying, and completely agree. I don't steal, and would never justify it, I just thought I might throw out a reason I could see someone justifying it over.

I simply just don't offer gougers my money.

The term 'gouger' is what I don't understand. If that person paid retail for there product and needs to sell them to make a profit then they have to sell above MSRP. If that person paid wholesale for the product and needs to sell above MSRP to make a profit then that is there choice and we have the choice not to by. But let's say that person's overhead is such that they have to charge more, even double. That is not gouging, that is running a profitable business.

I understand that you don't want to overpay, but here is another example: I can go to Total Wine, a very large chain, and buy a 6 pack of Dogfish Head 60min IPA for $8. The same beer may be at a smaller store for $10. Total Wine buys, and sells, much more product than the small store. Their profit margins do not need to be as high because they have large sales volume. The small store needs to have a bigger margin because they have to make more per beer because of low sales volume. I know everyone gets that concept so we'll move to restaurants. Now, I can pay $8-10 for a 6 pack but then I go to a bar/restaurant and they want me to pay $4-8 for 1 beer. Is that gouging? No. They are providing a product that is convenient and desirable at a price they can make money on. A small cigar vendor in an event type atmosphere is doing the same, they are providing a desirable product at a price people are willing to pay. Chances are they do not do the volume of sales as a regular cigar store, and as I stated above, they may have had to buy there stock at a higher price. Value is not MSRP, it is not set by the manufacture, value is what someone is willing to pay.

[Ogre]

Originally Posted by awsmith4

The term 'gouger' is what I don't understand. If that person paid retail for there product and needs to sell them to make a profit then they have to sell above MSRP. If that person paid wholesale for the product and needs to sell above MSRP to make a profit then that is there choice and we have the choice not to by. But let's say that person's overhead is such that they have to charge more, even double. That is not gouging, that is running a profitable business.

I understand that you don't want to overpay, but here is another example: I can go to Total Wine, a very large chain, and buy a 6 pack of Dogfish Head 60min IPA for $8. The same beer may be at a smaller store for $10. Total Wine buys, and sells, much more product than the small store. Their profit margins do not need to be as high because they have large sales volume. The small store needs to have a bigger margin because they have to make more per beer because of low sales volume. I know everyone gets that concept so we'll move to restaurants. Now, I can pay $8-10 for a 6 pack but then I go to a bar/restaurant and they want me to pay $4-8 for 1 beer. Is that gouging? No. They are providing a product that is convenient and desirable at a price they can make money on. A small cigar vendor in an event type atmosphere is doing the same, they are providing a desirable product at a price people are willing to pay. Chances are they do not do the volume of sales as a regular cigar store, and as I stated above, they may have had to buy there stock at a higher price. Value is not MSRP, it is not set by the manufacture, value is what someone is willing to pay.

Vary well put Albert!!!

[JaKaacH]

Originally Posted by awsmith4

The term 'gouger' is what I don't understand. If that person paid retail for there product and needs to sell them to make a profit then they have to sell above MSRP. If that person paid wholesale for the product and needs to sell above MSRP to make a profit then that is there choice and we have the choice not to by. But let's say that person's overhead is such that they have to charge more, even double. That is not gouging, that is running a profitable business.

I understand that you don't want to overpay, but here is another example: I can go to Total Wine, a very large chain, and buy a 6 pack of Dogfish Head 60min IPA for $8. The same beer may be at a smaller store for $10. Total Wine buys, and sells, much more product than the small store. Their profit margins do not need to be as high because they have large sales volume. The small store needs to have a bigger margin because they have to make more per beer because of low sales volume. I know everyone gets that concept so we'll move to restaurants. Now, I can pay $8-10 for a 6 pack but then I go to a bar/restaurant and they want me to pay $4-8 for 1 beer. Is that gouging? No. They are providing a product that is convenient and desirable at a price they can make money on. A small cigar vendor in an event type atmosphere is doing the same, they are providing a desirable product at a price people are willing to pay. Chances are they do not do the volume of sales as a regular cigar store, and as I stated above, they may have had to buy there stock at a higher price. Value is not MSRP, it is not set by the manufacture, value is what someone is willing to pay.

Good one Albert. I hate the over use of the gouger term too! If you don't like the price move on, if you make a offer and the sellers says no move on.

Yep, and these same retailers will tell you "our prices are higher than the internet because the online guys don't have to pay for a store!". BS

They pay employees, overhead, warehousing, shipping, and electricity like anyone else.

Also, the practice of B&M's telling customers not to purchase online because the "feds will come after you for taxes" is just about as low as it gets.



If a retailer is paying more than MSRP for a specific product, rather than finding a dealer for their customers who offer said product at the MSRP, I would say they are ripping their customers off.

If they wanted to save the customers business, they would say "I can get them for you, but they are way above MSRP due to demand", and offer either another source, or possibly buy them from the retailer, add on $10 and make the profit on the customers subsequent purchases.

Simply sticking on a sticker price that is $10-15 higher per stick than the guy down the road is a quick way to be labeled a cheat or scammer. Thats an extra $200-400 a box.

[awsmith4]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

Yep, and these same retailers will tell you "our prices are higher than the internet because the online guys don't have to pay for a store!". BS - True

They pay employees, overhead, warehousing, shipping, and electricity like anyone else. - True

Also, the practice of B&M's telling customers not to purchase online because the "feds will come after you for taxes" is just about as low as it gets. - The main reason a online cigar is cheaper is because of the lack of having to charge state tax. True the feds will not come after you, but the state might. It has happened in New Jersey, and if I can find a link to the thread I will post it. As for what the state tax is here is the link http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16845



If a retailer is paying more than MSRP for a specific product, rather than finding a dealer for their customers who offer said product at the MSRP, I would say they are ripping their customers off.

If they wanted to save the customers business, they would say "I can get them for you, but they are way above MSRP due to demand", and offer either another source, or possibly buy them from the retailer, add on $10 and make the profit on the customers subsequent purchases.

Simply sticking on a sticker price that is $10-15 higher per stick than the guy down the road is a quick way to be labeled a cheat or scammer. Thats an extra $200-400 a box. - That is not scamming, gouging, cheating, etc. that is just dumb business and will be corrected by the free market. People eventually will not pay higher than the competition and if they do its their own fault

My replies are in red, and I will find the thread that has the letter where the state demanding payment.