Advice for B&M owners anyone?

Originally Posted by Miket156

I "thought" that anyone that would be interested in purchasing a cigar would not be a thief too.

Never met a lawyer, huh?

[Ogre]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

Never met a lawyer, huh?

1. Don't disrespect me because of my age. Yes, I look young, but after 4 kids and 3 wives...I need a stogie.

2. When I ask about a top 25 NC stick, don't look at me like I'm the crazy one if you don't have it. "HUH? Whats a Liga Privada? Who makes it? Is it a generic?" LOL

Yeah Rich's in Portland....I'm looking at you! You've been promising to get me a box for over a year.

3. (Already been mentioned) When I come into your store wearing a sweatshirt, don't expect me to be looking for the dog rockets. Last time this happened, I ended up buying $200 in sticks.

4. When I ask if you have the new thing I'm looking for, and you tell me "yes we do, but they are in the back and I haven't priced them yet", prepare for me to call you a lazy bastard.

5. Get off your damn computer and interact with your customers. Yeah, forums are fun...but customers bring you money. Save the forum updates for after work please.

6. Don't mark your sticks up with more than a 70% profit margin, and I'll be willing to bet that your "theft problem" might go down some. Ever bought a stogie on the strip in Vegas? Talk about price fixing!

[awsmith4]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

6. Don't mark your sticks up with more than a 70% profit margin, and I'll be willing to bet that your "theft problem" might go down some. Ever bought a stogie on the strip in Vegas? Talk about price fixing!

Just out of curiosity how do you know what there profit margin is and how does that make theft justified???

Originally Posted by awsmith4

Just out of curiosity how do you know what there profit margin is and how does that make theft justified???

I'm not justifying ANYTHING. But when you've gone to conventions, know what wholesale is, and then see those sticks in certain stores for 25% more than your regular B&M's, yeah..something is up and it stinks.


$40 45th Padrons

$20 Nostrosos

$25 Camacho Triple Maduros


These are why I don't go into certain stores. When something is above MSRP, who is the real thief in that equation?

[awsmith4]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

I'm not justifying ANYTHING. But when you've gone to conventions, know what wholesale is, and then see those sticks in certain stores for 25% more than your regular B&M's, yeah..something is up and it stinks.


$40 45th Padrons

$20 Nostrosos

$25 Camacho Triple Maduros


These are why I don't go into certain stores. When something is above MSRP, who is the real thief in that equation?

Often times cigars in event areas are bought from a retail outlet not a wholesaler or a manufacturer. Every time a cigar changes hands (as well as many other products) it often needs to be doubled to make a margin that is profitable. Without profit there is no point in business. If the market will bear a $40 Padron then that is not gouging, that is providing for your customer base. Cigars are not a necessity so no one is forced to pay high prices. The only way a person would be a thief is if they misrepresented what they were selling. If they have a cigar clearly priced and a customer is willing to buy that cigar at that price then that is the free market at work. If the seller was peddling fakes or rebanding lower grade cigars then that would constituent thievery.

With that said it does trouble me to go to a local shop that has higher prices than their competitors, know that they get them from the same source, and then hear them complain that no one is buying and the other guys are undercutting them. If your competition is pricing lower maybe you need to as well. Yes, you may not make the same margin per cigar but a low margin is better than no margin from lack of sales.

Originally Posted by awsmith4

Often times cigars in event areas are bought from a retail outlet not a wholesaler or a manufacturer. Every time a cigar changes hands (as well as many other products) it often needs to be doubled to make a margin that is profitable. Without profit there is no point in business. If the market will bear a $40 Padron then that is not gouging, that is providing for your customer base. Cigars are not a necessity so no one is forced to pay high prices. The only way a person would be a thief is if they misrepresented what they were selling. If they have a cigar clearly priced and a customer is willing to buy that cigar at that price then that is the free market at work. If the seller was peddling fakes or rebanding lower grade cigars then that would constituent thievery.

With that said it does trouble me to go to a local shop that has higher prices than their competitors, know that they get them from the same source, and then hear them complain that no one is buying and the other guys are undercutting them. If your competition is pricing lower maybe you need to as well. Yes, you may not make the same margin per cigar but a low margin is better than no margin from lack of sales.

Oh, I completely understand what you are saying, and completely agree. I don't steal, and would never justify it, I just thought I might throw out a reason I could see someone justifying it over.

I simply just don't offer gougers my money.

[awsmith4]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

Oh, I completely understand what you are saying, and completely agree. I don't steal, and would never justify it, I just thought I might throw out a reason I could see someone justifying it over.

I simply just don't offer gougers my money.

The term 'gouger' is what I don't understand. If that person paid retail for there product and needs to sell them to make a profit then they have to sell above MSRP. If that person paid wholesale for the product and needs to sell above MSRP to make a profit then that is there choice and we have the choice not to by. But let's say that person's overhead is such that they have to charge more, even double. That is not gouging, that is running a profitable business.

I understand that you don't want to overpay, but here is another example: I can go to Total Wine, a very large chain, and buy a 6 pack of Dogfish Head 60min IPA for $8. The same beer may be at a smaller store for $10. Total Wine buys, and sells, much more product than the small store. Their profit margins do not need to be as high because they have large sales volume. The small store needs to have a bigger margin because they have to make more per beer because of low sales volume. I know everyone gets that concept so we'll move to restaurants. Now, I can pay $8-10 for a 6 pack but then I go to a bar/restaurant and they want me to pay $4-8 for 1 beer. Is that gouging? No. They are providing a product that is convenient and desirable at a price they can make money on. A small cigar vendor in an event type atmosphere is doing the same, they are providing a desirable product at a price people are willing to pay. Chances are they do not do the volume of sales as a regular cigar store, and as I stated above, they may have had to buy there stock at a higher price. Value is not MSRP, it is not set by the manufacture, value is what someone is willing to pay.

[replicant_argent]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

4. When I ask if you have the new thing I'm looking for, and you tell me "yes we do, but they are in the back and I haven't priced them yet", prepare for me to call you a lazy bastard.

Really?



No... I gotta ask, are you serious on this one?

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

Really?



No... I gotta ask, are you serious on this one?

Nope. Paul's Cigar Shop on Beaverton-Hillsdale HWY.

Asked about Warlock (by omar ortez), and the older salesman told me "yep, we just had some dropped off in the back for promo, but i haven't inventoried them yet".

I laughed all the way out the door.

[awsmith4]

So are you now saying that a local cigar shop should keep prices in line with a online store and if they can't they should move out of state to avoid the taxes but continue to stay in state and provide cigars and a place for you to smoke?

Seems impossible...

Originally Posted by awsmith4

So are you now saying that a local cigar shop should keep prices in line with a online store and if they can't they should move out of state to avoid the taxes but continue to stay in state and provide cigars and a place for you to smoke?

Seems impossible...

No, I gave two of the local shops their opportunity to earn my business several times. Timber Valley Tobacco's owner died, and the sales woman who bought it, Dawn, ran it into the ground by not ordering any more stock.

Paul's has the worst service I've ever had, of ANY retailer, tobacco or not.

Rich's is a good place. They have a markup of about $1-2 per stick compared to other places, but it is downtown and I understand that.

Pearl Specialty Market is right down the road and charges 20% more than Rich's.

I love threads that ask you your opinion, then you get chided for giving it! lol


I never said they needed to keep prices inline with online retailers. I said putting an extra $10 a stick compared to other stores in town would get you labeled a scammer.

[awsmith4]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

No, I gave two of the local shops their opportunity to earn my business several times. Timber Valley Tobacco's owner died, and the sales woman who bought it, Dawn, ran it into the ground by not ordering any more stock.

Paul's has the worst service I've ever had, of ANY retailer, tobacco or not.

Rich's is a good place. They have a markup of about $1-2 per stick compared to other places, but it is downtown and I understand that.

Pearl Specialty Market is right down the road and charges 20% more than Rich's.

I love threads that ask you your opinion, then you get chided for giving it! lol

I'm not chiding you, and I apologize for the tone of my last post. You do however state your opinions with a certain vigor that for some reason inspired me to repute. But it was meant to be more in the spirit of a lively debate, not to tell you you are wrong.

If you scroll back a few pages you and I made the same point, my biggest piece of advice to store owners is "Give a damn"

[loki]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

Nope. Paul's Cigar Shop on Beaverton-Hillsdale HWY.

Asked about Warlock (by omar ortez), and the older salesman told me "yep, we just had some dropped off in the back for promo, but i haven't inventoried them yet".

I laughed all the way out the door.

so you do everything the second you get it? maybe he'd just done inventory the day before, maybe he just did it before you got there...maybe you should open your own shop since you have the perfect way to do everything

Originally Posted by loki

so you do everything the second you get it? maybe he'd just done inventory the day before, maybe he just did it before you got there...maybe you should open your own shop since you have the perfect way to do everything

Nope, the online guys do a perfect job for me. Thanks!

[awsmith4]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

Nope, the online guys do a perfect job for me. Thanks!

However, then you made this post.

Online guys do not provide a lounge, they don not clean the ashtrays, they do not give personal service. I too order a lot of cigars online but each the online and the local retailers play a certain role.