New Cigar brands

[RevSmoke]

As I have been a cigar smoker for over 30 years, my idea of new cigar brands is probably different than most. If it hasn't been around for at least 10 years, it is a new brand (and by the way, if it is a brand that makes some claim to having been around in 18??, but has not been produced in the last 10 years, it also qualifies.

I have seen brands come and go. In fact, during the "cigar boom" in the mid-'90s I saw boutique cigar brands pop up like dandelions, some of them were around a year, some a few years, some still remain to this day. Every one of them had some story and or connection to a wonderful history... "Great-grandfather Humberto was a torcedor in what later became Cuba, he trained his son, and grandson, and when Castro came the family left. We are now reviving the old family name and tradition, the grandson Humberto III has teamed up with Ricardo Montebalm, whose family has been growing tobacco in the Vitano region of Hispanola for 3 generations. They are producing a cigar that is reminiscent of Cuban cigars before the reign of Castro; elegant and yet displaying the distinctive flavors of this old tradition."

OK, so my creative writing isn't the best - and maybe I exaggerated a bit by saying they "all" had a history. They all did claim to have the best rollers (all trained in Cuba) and the finest tobacco.

But, I write this to ask a question.

I recently read someone going to great lengths to buy up some La Palina sticks, a brand that has fairly recently returned to the scene after existing the scene in 1926. Yes, I read their history (part of what prompted above). But the fact remains that they are a fairly recent addition to the cigar world. I haven't tried them for I personally believe they haven't been around long enough, and at $15 a stick (yes, I have seen them for about $7 a stick) I am reluctant to try this supposed "mild, smooth, elegant" cigar. I have seen a couple people claim they are really good. But, I remain skeptical.

Anyway, La Palina isn't the only newbie on the block. I am noticing a bunch of "Boutique brands popping up lately - La Duena, Curivari, and many others.

It got me to thinking...
During the boom, there were reasons that many of those boutique brands lasted a short while and then disappeared. They sold for outrageous prices, and the people that smoked them claimed they were the greatest. People would walk around cigar bars with their expensive bands exposes, puffed up chests claiming how they are smoking the latest, greatest, bestest cigar out there... And then you saw them at JR Cigars for 1/10th their original price (I seriously bought a couple boxes of some cigars for $29 which has originally sold for $290 a box only a couple years earlier).

I know people have said that today, with the internet, the cigar smoker is more educated. I am still skeptical. Has the internet made us more educated? Or maybe more easily duped. I think that through the internet it is easier to shovel more BS over a greater area and in a more efficient manner. After all, if it is on the internet, it has to be true.

Now, some of these new boutique brands may be great. Some of them may have found someone (named Fred) who is speaks highly about them on some cigar bulletin board and then a bunch of people join in. Since Fred really likes them, they all buy them, try them, and love them (you cannot speak out against what Fred likes). Next thing you know, they're the latest and greatest cigar out there.

OK, maybe I am going overboard. I am personally a big fan of the Curivari line, so I am guilty of liking something new and making it known.

What I am getting at is this - are there really that many new "excellent cigars coming out?" And how come the excellent ones are always so expensive? There are a ton of new cheaper cigars coming out as well. I think those might even outsell the more expensive ones.

What makes La Palina that much better than Don Oslvaldo cigars? Will either stand the test of time.

I notice marketing trends seem to rule the was CA rocks. It is this year's release of cigar X, or the limited release of cigar Z that gets all the attention.

I know I must sound like a broken record, but I wonder if sometimes the newness of a cigar and a demanding price don't help to sell a cigar and make it popular, at least for a moment.

As an example, what has happened to Taboo cigar smokers on CA? Used to be that they were an extremely popular brand. I have some HSGs and Twists from back in '05 - '08 that are excellent. Has the brand gone downhill? Has the owner/operator at Taboo offended the CA membership? Or, is that the way of the boutique brand - they are popular for a time, and then people realize the cigars aren't that good? Or is there some other reason?

Personally, I'm going to have an ERdM Robusto this afternoon on the links. The last one I had (bought in 2011) reminded me of some that I had smoked back in the early 1990s.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[mahtofire14]

Todd, what an excellent post first off. Very intriguing. Personally I have only been smoking cigars for about eight or nine years with a three year break in the middle and after that break I did find that many of the hot brands/cigars that people were raving about when I left, had disappeared when I returned. I distinctly remember the CAO Vision being raved about.

I think you bring up a topic that is found in every consumer product. You have to have the latest and greatest. And high dollar means premium even when it is t true. Is that what marketing and high demand of limited quantity has done to us? Who knows. I know I've bought that $20 stick expecting it to be the best cigar of my life only to be disappointed after burning it.

All I can say is I will continue to try new things based purely on what looks good to me.

[equetefue]

Excellent post Todd. Although I have not been a cigar smoker for long, I can definetely agree with your statements. I guess times have changed and that has something to do with it.

Before a known good cigar was recognized by the avid smoker, now and days it seems that clever marketting and internet buzz makes the sale.

[dave]

Good read, but wrong venue, I'd think. You are speaking to a VERY different audience than nearly the entire cigar smoking population. The more people I talk to in B&M's, on the street, etc., the more I'm convinced that 'WE' are different.

That means that few of us can really speak to what motivates the 'average' cigar buyer to purchase a particular cigar. Maybe I'm jaded or naieve, or elitist...but I believe that the majority of the participants in this forum have a more refined (and educated) palate than the VAST majority of the cigar smoking public.

[RevSmoke]

Good points all.

I am curious Dave, and so I have to ask if you have tried some of what I'd call the old venerable blends? Have you had an El Rey del Mundo Robusto? How about a Punch Double Maduro Rothschild? How about an Arturo Fuente Rothschild? How about a Hoyo de Monterrey Excalibur IV?

Or did you immediately jump into stuff that has only been in the cigar marketplace for the last 12 years, showing up "boom" or "post-boom"?

All those cigars are still around. And by the way, they sell more of those than the boutique brands.

Do today's cigar smokers have a more refined palate? I am not convinced they do. I am not saying that they do not, but I am not convinced they do.

I find that many of today's newer cigars have big, bold, brassy flavors and not much nuance or complexity.

(I am not saying the following is true, but as I consider it, it may have merit.)
How about this possibility, maybe many of today's smokers have dead palates, they need big flavors and lots of them because they do not notice the subtle nuances?

Just asking questions, not making accusations.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

Not saying any of this is the way it is, but just asking questions to spark the conversation.

[the jiggler]

Thoughts from noobie corner.

I'm 42. This summer will mark my second year smoking cigars. Prior to a friend offering me a Kuba Kuba, I don't think I had smoked a cigar in my adult life. I could maybe name two or three brands that I remembered from some pop culture reference or another. Don't know anything about pre-boom or boom culture.

I began researching cigars online because there was so much I didn't know. What things were called, what sizes were available, how to cut, light, etc. and my local buddy was the only other person I knew who smoked and he didnt know much (again Kuba Kuba). So we started searching on line for information and then sharing it together over a smoke.

I landed at another board, participated in a noobie sampler trade which basically resulted in me buying a $75.00 dollar bag of somebody's humi detritus. Irritated and dejected, I happened to run into Jonathan Drew at an event here in Charlotte and he mentioned Cigar Asylum as a place I should check out because the admins were stand up and it was a "smoke what you like" kind of place as opposed to "if it aint Padron or Fuente it sucks" kind of place.

So I landed here and started lurking. Just about everything I have tried has been because I saw a picture or a review or a in search of post here. A lot of the information here is people remarking in one way or another about what's new.

I've learned two things. One is that there is so much new stuff coming out that I have not had time, or money to dig to deep with any one manufacturer.

The second is that since I can't afford to buy boxes at a time, I buy a lot of singles and fivers. When I find something I like, I make a note to buy more, but it seems by the time I save up enough money to buy a box there are many more new things to try and I end up taking a swing at them instead.

I think maybe because of personal economics it is just more fun, for me, to keep searching for the holy grail instead of saving my pennies for a box of something I know I love, like T-52's.

The older my dad gets, the more time he spends hunting for a lost copy of the Declaration of Independence at garage sales. So maybe I can say that whatever I have, at least I got it honest.

[E.J.]

Good question..... My answer, at least....where I sit....if I am following the gist of your thread....

Have been smoking cigars for 3.5 years.

All my purchases are related to recommendations from this forum/members here/blogs of those on here ect. Most blind purchases....by the box....which is how I buy almost everything. Things like Padron Anny's, Tat brown label, Illusione, a lot of Tatuaje B&M specific shop releases, AF Don Carlos...bla..bla..bla... I did buy a box of AB Tempus Terra Nova's, that I really liked when smoking one from my B&M(where I never go anymore, probably haven't been through the doors in 18+ months?). It's been fun, have yet to purchase something that I wish I didn't & I'm enjoying what I smoke. Every once in a while, I'll grab a 5er from the B&S forum and that may spark a purchase as well.

I have also had the pleasure of doing a bunch of box splits from elsewhere.

I have never smoked the specific cigars you mentioned above. I have had plenty of ERdM Choix...


So I guess in a nutshell.... Yes, my purchases are 100% related to what appears popular on here and what is being reviewed on people's blogs.... For better or worse, those cigars do tend to be flavor of the month(as almost all my NC box purchases have been, maybe not AFDC?, no idea how long those have been around?)

[jjirons69]

Originally Posted by the jiggler

The older my dad gets, the more time he spends hunting for a lost copy of the Declaration of Independence at garage sales. So maybe I can say that whatever I have, at least I got it honest.

I know that guy!

Great post, Craig.

[dave]

Todd,
Everytime I try to type a reply, I'm all over the map. I guess the thought that keeps rising to the top is that you sound like my grandpa rocking on the porch complaining about these damned cell phones and computers and crap. Why can't kids today pick up a ball pen and write a letter?

Tastes are subjective. Marketing is pretty basic fact of the retail world. If it was ineffective there wouldn't be any. Tobacco is being grown in far more different places, soils, climate, conditions than ever before in history - it is being cured using new, sometimes experimental methods, and thus the variety of fairly distinct blends available is probably exponentially higher than ever before. So, I think it is safe to assume that lots of new stuff could arguably be distinct from anything that came before. Doesn't make it better, necessarily. But, IF, by some unknown measurement we could make a determination that 'newer' cigar smokers tend to enjoy newer, distinct, flavors - I don't see that I could support an argument that it would be a bad thing. It is entirely possible (and perhaps likely) that someone who has only smoked NC Montecristo for 15 or more years might not enjoy, even a little bit, a Tatuaje 7th Reserva. I wouldn't begrudge him for that. But, I might harbor some negative thoughts if he said that new cigars suck, old stuff has staying power and must therefore be good, and that new smokers today can't appreciate good cigars. Or, that he's skeptical of trying something new like a Palina something or other just because it isn't old school.

I will admit that my palate is pretty sucky and I do not always detect the nuancest of nuances. -- But, then again, I think that I CAN adequately appreciate an 06 Boli Beli Fino as much as I can appreciate a 12 Viaje White Lable Project Stuffed Turkey Dark Meat - even if I don't so much appreciate the name.

So....I guess I sense I disagree with your post even though I'm not convinced I have understood your point.

[RevSmoke]

Dave, I am not saying that the new is bad. In fact, I am not trying to condemn anything. If anything, I am simply wondering...

...will what is new still be here in 10 years?
...is the old stuff worse?
...is the new stuff better?
...does price tag and newness sell?
...are we so inundated with trying new that we do, whether we know it is good or not?

I don't know if there might be other things that are going on too. I was simply stating some observations more than anything else.

And let's face it, I love some of the new stuff, I buy Curivaris whenever I can afford them. There are other new things I like to try as well.

So as I said, I am not trying to condemn anything. I am pointing out some observations and hoping to discuss things.

[Milvel]

I'm new to smoking and have been influenced by what is new, hot, HTF and popular. I feel like this has hurt my chances of trying new lower end stuff.


Side note: I think companies have to come out with "new" stuff to keep people talking about their products. It could be as simple as renaming a long standing cigar from an old staple name to the NEW HOT THANG in order to drum up business. In bowling they come out with a line of bowling equipment for a year or two and then discontinue the line only to come out with a NEW line of the SAME stuff with different colors and cooler names.


Fantastic post BTW.

[cobra03]

Very interesting topic. I dont think the high dollar price has as much to do with it as the fact that its new or limited or hard to find. I think alot of people are constantly chasing that "new " shiny cigar. Trying to see if that new blend is the cigar smoking nirvana I think we all seek. I often find myself doing the same thing. We live in a world now were very few people are brand or vitola loyal like our grandfathers were. It seems to be a reflection of the world in general : bigger, faster, better. In the end i dont think the "new" stuff is any better than the"old" stuff .At the end of the day it seems more like its about the thrill of the chase with alot of this stuff.I will admit I like the fact that there is always something new, something pushing the boundries. I dont have to jump on the band wagon but I like the fact that I can if I want.

[Sadden]

Sorry but hype to me has no influence on my purchasing habits.

When i go to buy a new cigar i look for private reviews online. If i find 2 or 3 reviews that say it has a flavor and stregth profile i might like i buy a 5er. If i like that i buy a box. If i find lots of sources that confirm ill like the profile ill just jump into a box or two.

Marketing and the blurbs they attach to cigar notes play zero influence on what i purchase , mostly because its mostly a bunch of bullshit anyways. They play alot of stuff up.

Thats not to say that there arent some well marketed and hyped up cigars that arent good. But for the most part its all a bunch of crap to me.

[cmitch]

There's way too many cigars on the market. I see it being impossible for a B&M to even be able to afford stocking even 1/4 of the faces available, not to mention the vitolas in each face as well. Some will make it, some will not. Avalon, a company that cranked up in '07 tried and failed. The theory is that they released sticks that weren't ready. People rejected them and now they're gone. Guess what? The Avalon Hellhound has turned into one fantastic cigar and no chance you'll ever get more unless you find someone with some old stock.

This year, Gaby Kafie has started up and produced some Kafie cigars in the 54 to 60 RG. I think they're great but the reviews are mixed, because, obviously he has released some for trial that were not ready to smoke. They release them May 27. It remains to be seen if he can impress enough to stay around.

[RevSmoke]

Originally Posted by cmitch

There's way too many cigars on the market. I see it being impossible for a B&M to even be able to afford stocking even 1/4 of the faces available, not to mention the vitolas in each face as well. Some will make it, some will not. Avalon, a company that cranked up in '07 tried and failed. The theory is that they released sticks that weren't ready. People rejected them and now they're gone. Guess what? The Avalon Hellhound has turned into one fantastic cigar and no chance you'll ever get more unless you find someone with some old stock.

This year, Gaby Kafie has started up and produced some Kafie cigars in the 54 to 60 RG. I think they're great but the reviews are mixed, because, obviously he has released some for trial that were not ready to smoke. They release them May 27. It remains to be seen if he can impress enough to stay around.

See, that is what I wonder about. I picked up a bunch of stuff from the boom that was being closed out and let it sit for a couple years. I then went and smoked them all up as they were great smokes - but they were not all the good new. Maybe they weren't "excellent" smokes, but for a buck a stick they were stupendous.

[DaBear]

Good discussion thread Todd. I've actually had a few of these discussions up at the shop I work at with some friends who have been smoking a heck of a lot longer than I have.

In my opinion, as a B&M employee, I see a lot of sales toward newer stuff from those willing to try just about anything. Personally, I make it a point to at least try everything we have in stock, but thats because I feel its my duty to have an informed opinion on our stock in order to recommend things to people. But, when I get a newbie into the shop and have them ask for a recommendation, I find the stuff I recommend first is almost always one of the tried and true classics; Ashton Classics, Avo Classics, Hemingways(this one I may harbor a little bit of sentimental value in as my first stick), etc. I personally tend to try and get the newbies acquainted with the classics before having them venture out to the newer stuff that can be a pain in the ass to keep up with. Though I will say I do break from this rule of thumb for the Curivaris, as they are personally one of the best sticks on the market(amusingly, I find their two best sticks are the most expensive, EGR Prominentes, and cheapest, Buenaventura BV500s, are the best they have).

One thing I do think should be noted is the changes even I've been able to see in the just over 3 years I've been smoking. The two biggest shocks to me were the introduction of the PAM/N 64 No. 4 monstrosity of a 6x60 and Davidoff releasing(or at least soon to be releasing) a cigar with any Nicaraguan tobacco, let alone a nic puro. To me, Padron was one of those companies I thought was pretty much set in their ways and was no way in hell gonna release a new size, let alone the 6x60. Hell, they've even started on the whole LE path with their SI and WCD exclusives they've released. As with Davidoff, I was kind of floored when I saw the Davidoff Nicaraguan announcement as they're much like Padron to me(or maybe it should be the other way around), I thought they were fairly set in their ways of Dominican Puros only.

As I see it, the new stuff does take away from some of the old guard, but as far as who we order from, its almost always the old guard we order the most of. New stuff will sell for a couple months(or weeks if its frankly just OK), and then turn over to something else. Thats what I've noticed in retail. Just as an example, when the Cain F Lanceros first came out, the number of those suckers we sold, there wasn't a doubt in my mind we could sell a couple hundred boxes of those by the end of the year(we got them in in June IIRC). After 2 months though, sales of em had slowed significantly, to somewhere between a quarter to an eighth of what they were in that first month. Yes they were still selling, but they had already been replaced by something else as the new hot stick of the month. They're a great smoke, and still sell, but we ain't movin 30 boxes a month any more, even with two shops now. But if you were to look back at sales of the F Lanceros, and say, the Ashton Classic Churchills since the F Lanceros got released, I'd be willing to put money down that the Churchill have outsold the Lanceros by a long shot.