Combining Passive and Active Humidification

[Sadden]

Hey guys so my aristocrat is almost done

Looking at combining passive and active Humidification , for the active im going to have Bob's Set and Forget which i have heard very good things about.

Im looking to add beads (HCM) for a couple reasons.

a) have a buffer in the event of a power outage

b) the beads ammonia absorbing properties

Obviously the beads will not be the main humidifcation element , how much should i add. A percentage of the reccomended amount 25 , 50 , 75% or what the calculator reccomends? (probably gonna double the reccomended amount anyways , im gonna have space to spare just curoius as to what the gurus think)


Also looking to do something similar in a desktop im going to convert to a infused stick humi when the Aristocrat gets here. Except Heartfelt or Cigar sciences as the "active" humidification (easy to recharge) and HCM for the ammonia scavenging properties again. Will the HCM and (HF or CS) beads work together.

And finaly how do Cigar sciences and Heartfelt beads stack up against one another. Looks like they are nearly identical to me.

[iaMkcK]

Seems a bit overkill imho.. Even if the set and forget goes down, your sticks will be fine for a few hours. Unless you already have the HCM purchased.. I'd say double up on HCM or go all active. Your choice for my

Personally I'd get HCM from CigarNut on here.. www.shilalasbeads.com I believe is the site. They were made by Scott and are now sold by Mike. Great guys all around

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Sadden

Hey guys so my aristocrat is almost done

Looking at combining passive and active Humidification , for the active im going to have Bob's Set and Forget which i have heard very good things about.

Im looking to add beads (HCM) for a couple reasons.

a) have a buffer in the event of a power outage

b) the beads ammonia absorbing properties

Obviously the beads will not be the main humidifcation element , how much should i add. A percentage of the reccomended amount 25 , 50 , 75% or what the calculator reccomends? (probably gonna double the reccomended amount anyways , im gonna have space to spare just curoius as to what the gurus think)

Sounds like a recipe for saturated beads. This would make them incapable of absorbing excess humidity should you have an upward spike.

Originally Posted by Sadden

Also looking to do something similar in a desktop im going to convert to a infused stick humi when the Aristocrat gets here. Except Heartfelt or Cigar sciences as the "active" humidification (easy to recharge) and HCM for the ammonia scavenging properties again. Will the HCM and (HF or CS) beads work together.

This question is probably better off directed specifically to Scott or Michael. I think I recall one of them saying something about this combo before, but I can't remember if it was a yea or nay.

Regardless, I don't really see the point of it though. The HCM beads are 2-way and will maintain humidity as well as scavenge the ammonia. Why not just use them exclusively rather than mix with Heartfelt beads if the ammonia scavenging of the HCM is that important to you.

Originally Posted by Sadden

And finaly how do Cigar sciences and Heartfelt beads stack up against one another. Looks like they are nearly identical to me.

Never seen Cigar Sciences beads, I have no idea.

[bobarian]

Cigar Sciences is Mark Neff's company. So these are the old Cigarmony beads.

[Sadden]

Still available exclusively through them and cigarsciences.com from what im given to understand.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Sadden

Still available exclusively through them and cigarsciences.com from what im given to understand.

Considering that Mark Neff owns both cigarmony & cigar sciences, I guess that's not surprising.

Just looked up the patent # listed for the Cigar Sciences products, it's a patent for the container the beads are in, not the media. In fact the patent discusses multiple types of media for the container.

[Sadden]

I was reading about this all day and scott mentioned in the past that a combo of active/ passive is the best for handling most situations.

[T.G]

Try not to over think things too much, Colin.

Cigars are pretty resilient. A lot more so than they often get credit for.

There are lots of ways to store them and there's no one single right way, but there is often a way that works best for you in a particular situation.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by iaMkcK

Seems a bit overkill imho.. Even if the set and forget goes down, your sticks will be fine for a few hours.

Actually, they will be fine in an Aristocrat for days if not weeks.

[iaMkcK]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Actually, they will be fine in an Aristocrat for days if not weeks.

Oh for sure, you and I both know cigars are resilient. I just meant that if his Set & Forget is down, it shouldn't take more than a few hours to bring it back up. And in that time, he shouldn't have to worry.

[Sadden]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Actually, they will be fine in an Aristocrat for days if not weeks.

Im thinking about vacation etc.

[markem]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Actually, they will be fine in an Aristocrat for days if not weeks.

actually having had a power outage that lasted a couple of days, I can tell you that my aristocrat maintained the humidity almost exactly where it was when the power went. I didn't open the unit so it stayed sealed, but they are great units and hold RH well.

[CigarNut]

You can mix active and passive humidification, but you have to be very careful about it or, as others have pointed out you will just saturate your beads. I know people who do have both active humidification and HCM beads togeter, but I have never seen it done with the Aristocrat. Bob's Set-And-Forget system is awesome.

You can put HCM and Heartfelt beads in the same humidor. The HCM beads will end up at the same RH as the Heartfelt beads. However, for the purpose you mentioned I would go with either Heartfelt or HCM but not both. I think its more difficult to manage two different types of beads than it is to manage one.

[Weelok]

I'm assuming this is a large cabinet style humidor? If that is the case, I agree that a combination of active and passive is best. Just remember that humidity rises so put the active element on the bottom. You'll have to play with settings so that the top of the humidor does not get too humid.

I'd use the beads spread throughout the humidor to absorb excess humidity. They should not ever saturate unless you have your active set too high. 70% Heartfelt beads I've found have a tolerance of about 5%. What I experience is you have to get over 75% or so before they start saturating. If you set your active to something like 67%, it should balance out quite nicely.

Since you’re in a cabinet humidor, you may want some air circulation which will help keep the humidity balanced. I've found wiring in some simple PC fans and powering those moves air enough. I've not an apples to apples set up with yours as I’m using a wine fridge as my coolidor and I have to use a significantly suped up active humidification system to counter the effects of the refrigerator dehumidification elements. But with a bit of balancing, your cabinet should work out great.

You'll have an advantage over me that you don't have an active dehumidifying system so in the event your active humidity system fails, you should be fine for a month or so just based upon your beads and the seals of your humidor.

[Sadden]

The more i read on hcms website and older posts from scott the more i like the idea. So what ive read is that the HCM beads will recover the humidity in the humidor much faster than the S&F. So once everything in the humidor reaches equilibrium the S&F wont run much if at all . It probably wont run at all until the humidity drops below the beads setpoint. Then the S&F will kick on and "recharge" the beads.

Dave its a plus48 from bob staebell. 48*22*25.

[shilala]

I use an Avallo and tons of beads in my big cabinet humi.
The active humidification maintains the beads, and the beads take up when the kids pull the extension cord out of the wall. It works great, the set point never budges, and I've put water in the Accumonitor exactly twice in two years (my cabinet is not remotely as well sealed as one of Bob's humidors). I have the smallest one, forget what it's called. The mini or something, it was around 200 bucks, iirc.

I like the active/passive combo because it completely does away with humidity spikes and keeps a rock-solid RH with as close to zero maintenance as it gets.
Whether it's overkill or not is a matter of opinion. I've got about 500 bucks worth of humidity control apparatus caring for many, many thousands of dollars worth of cigars, and it's flawless and secure. The setup is worth it's weight in gold to me.

For what it's worth, the active/passive combination idea certainly wasn't mine. I picked it up in my reading back at Club Stogie. I also thought that if things were sealed up real tight that the RH would run away on me, just by virtue of the Hydra being full of water and more or less open to the environment inside the humidor. I figured it'd create a "saturated beads" situation like the guys have mentioned here. I was never able to produce results like that, and still haven't. Nor have I ever heard of it happening to anyone.
If a humidor was sealed tight enough and seldom (or never) got opened, I can see it happening in my mind's eye. I even ran a Hydra with beads in a desktop and wasn't able to make the RH run away on me.

What I can mention from those trials is that the little Hydras are far less accurate and sensitive than the little Avallo. The Avallo has held up flawlessly while the Hydras broke left and right, making it a far better value.
I've heard nothing but good about Bob's set and forget, I don't think you could go wrong there. Some are nearly identical to my Avallo, I'm sure I'd be happy with them, but I do believe Avallo's might be a bit less expensive.

[Chainsaw13]

In my cheap cabinet, I run about 3lbs of Scott's beads and for most of the year, it's all I need. When the furnace comes on in the winter, naturally the house dries out and the humidity in the cabinet starts to dip. That's when I put my Hydra back in. Between the Hydra and beads, it holds a steady RH and I've never seen any spikes. Like Scott, maintenance is pretty low. So far this year I've had to fill the reservoir twice.

[Sadden]

Thanks Michael!

As soon as my new door gets here and my humi stops leaking like a seive...

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showth...t=60440&page=2