Beginner Espresso setup

[pfm721]

Looking for opinions on what kind of setup to get to make espressos and lattes. Budget for this project is about $700. Fairly new to this so I'm trying to decide if I should go manual, semi-auto, or fully automatic. Any help is greatly appreciated.

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by pfm721

Looking for opinions on what kind of setup to get to make espressos and lattes. Budget for this project is about $700. Fairly new to this so I'm trying to decide if I should go manual, semi-auto, or fully automatic. Any help is greatly appreciated.

I am usually the turd in the punchbowl here. If you want good espresso or lattes for $700 you will have a hard time doing it. A ticket for the slightly better than nosebleed seat starts around $1000.

Figure there isn't an "espresso" grinder worth buying beneath a Rancilio Rocky - they start around $385 delivered. Finding a good espresso machine for $325 is pretty much out of the question unless you want to rehab something really messed up on your own labor.

Here is the closest thing there is to what you want after a comprehensive 15-second search: http://www.wholelattelove.com/Rancil...essentials.cfm

Not sure what's happening with the world of superautos - there may be some masterpieces out there for $700 but I doubt it. Paying short money for this gear puts you in line for a replacement sooner than you'd wish. Think out what you buy really carefully with this in mind: good espresso at home ain't cheap and cheap espresso at home ain't good. American garages and basements carry a huge inventory of inadequate "espresso" machines.

[mosesbotbol]

If you are still looking this summer, I'll sell you my Rancilio setup for well under $700. Not ready to upgrade yet... The Rancilio combo is the least expensive option you'll find that is worth going for. Not sure how much a new set is now, but any piece less than that is going to be junk by and large.

[pfm721]

Thanks for the help guys. I was thinking about the Rancilio Silvia before I made this post and you guys validated what I was thinking.

[pfm721]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

If you are still looking this summer, I'll sell you my Rancilio setup for well under $700. Not ready to upgrade yet... The Rancilio combo is the least expensive option you'll find that is worth going for. Not sure how much a new set is now, but any piece less than that is going to be junk by and large.

Just let me know when you decide to upgrade and if I haven't bought something by then I am sure we can work something out.

[0002S]

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

Not sure what's happening with the world of superautos - there may be some masterpieces out there for $700 but I doubt it.

You're still short money for a good one. Used maybe. If you do go with and superauto be prepaid for about $20ish a month in maintenance costs for filters, cleaner tabs and other assorted "do-dads".

[TheGentleman]

Heck, forget $700 and just get a Nespresso. I got one for Christmas and it's been unbelievable. I'm probably an amatuer, but it works!

[e-man67]

I got a Cuisanart espresso/cappicino machine for Christmas and love it...it was about $40...doesn't grind the beans or anything like that but tastes just as good as StarBucks...actually I use there espresso blend.

[floydpink]

Personally, I'd never buy a superauto. Too little for me to worry about and too little control over the brew for my OCD ways. My friend has one and feeds it Illy beans. It is marginally good espresso at best and the machine cost a few thousand bucks. I have told him to head over to the local roaster or let me roast him some beans, but he's happy with the stuff he uses.

My espresso journey has left me convinced that you are not getting into the hobby properly without spending nearly the whole 700 budget on the most important part; the grinder. Not quite the whole 700, but not too far off either.

Lots of guys do nicely with the Rocky/Silvia combo, but are normally offering them up for cheap once they decide it's time to bite the bullet and upgrade.

I entered the hobby with a Gaggia Baby machine and Gaggia MDF grinder for about 600 total and grew out of it in under a year. Very inconsistent and unpredictable at the best of times.

[0002S]

Originally Posted by floydpink

Personally, I'd never buy a superauto. Too little for me to worry about and too little control over the brew for my OCD ways. My friend has one and feeds it Illy beans. It is marginally good espresso at best and the machine cost a few thousand bucks. I have told him to head over to the local roaster or let me roast him some beans, but he's happy with the stuff he uses.

My espresso journey has left me convinced that you are not getting into the hobby properly without spending nearly the whole 700 budget on the most important part; the grinder. Not quite the whole 700, but not too far off either.

Lots of guys do nicely with the Rocky/Silvia combo, but are normally offering them up for cheap once they decide it's time to bite the bullet and upgrade.

I entered the hobby with a Gaggia Baby machine and Gaggia MDF grinder for about 600 total and grew out of it in under a year. Very inconsistent and unpredictable at the best of times.

Pete,

I'm that Illy Superauto guy too. While I'm more than satisfied, I would like to try other espresso beans. Can you recommend me a local roaster and bean?

[floydpink]

Originally Posted by 0002S

Pete,

I'm that Illy Superauto guy too. While I'm more than satisfied, I would like to try other espresso beans. Can you recommend me a local roaster and bean?

You're in Orlando, try the Whole Foods on Turkey Lake. They roast right on premises and have some great stuff.

I love their Ethiopian Yirga Cheff and they seem to get better results than I do roasting it myself.

Their houseblend Espresso is good too.

If you really want to see something good, order up some Intelligencia Black Cat or Stumptown Hairbender online. They'll roast it when you order it and give UncleBeanz a try as well.

Not trying to sound like a snob, and if you love Illy, great! I like my beans no older than 10 days post roast max.

If all else fails, meet up with me at Corona and I'll let you try some of my home roast.

[0002S]

Originally Posted by floydpink

You're in Orlando, try the Whole Foods on Turkey Lake. They roast right on premises and have some great stuff.

I love their Ethiopian Yirga Cheff and they seem to get better results than I do roasting it myself.

Their houseblend Espresso is good too.

If you really want to see something good, order up some Intelligencia Black Cat or Stumptown Hairbender online. They'll roast it when you order it and give UncleBeanz a try as well.

Not trying to sound like a snob, and if you love Illy, great! I like my beans no older than 10 days post roast max.

If all else fails, meet up with me at Corona and I'll let you try some of my home roast.

I don't take it the wrong way. You have more experience with different beans. I use a Jura Machine with Illy beans because its fast, easy, has little mess and little maintenance. It is by no mean the best coffee I've ever had. It's delivers a consistent taste for me.

The downtown Publix is spotty on the Illy supply so I'm looking for a more reliable solution.

I'll try the Intelligencia Black. How long do they take to ship?

Have you ever tried the Nicaraguan coffee that they serve at Corona? Does anyone from the area meet downtown at Corona on a regular basis?

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by 0002S

...I'll try the Intelligencia Black...

They're fast. If Black Cat doesn't do the trick for you, nothing will. It is a consistent, exceptional blend that shines in espresso machines.

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by TheGentleman

Heck, forget $700 and just get a Nespresso. I got one for Christmas and it's been unbelievable. I'm probably an amatuer, but it works!

I got a Cuisanart espresso/cappicino machine for Christmas and love it...it was about $40...doesn't grind the beans or anything like that but tastes just as good as StarBucks...actually I use there espresso blend.

Fine machines for making coffee, I'm sure, but this discussion is about pressurized espresso machines which are a different category gear.

[floydpink]

Originally Posted by 0002S

I don't take it the wrong way. You have more experience with different beans. I use a Jura Machine with Illy beans because its fast, easy, has little mess and little maintenance. It is by no mean the best coffee I've ever had. It's delivers a consistent taste for me.

The downtown Publix is spotty on the Illy supply so I'm looking for a more reliable solution.

I'll try the Intelligencia Black. How long do they take to ship?

Have you ever tried the Nicaraguan coffee that they serve at Corona? Does anyone from the area meet downtown at Corona on a regular basis?

I have and it isn't bad, but not great either. (sorry Alex!)
I attribute some of it to the fact that they fill the doser and dispense all day it seems from the full doser which I don't know when the beans were ground. More than 20 minutes, I don't want it. Never once saw a crema on top of an espresso there, nor a microfoam on a latte. (snob alert!!)
I stick with the green tea when having a beverage at Corona.

I'm at the Sand Lake Corona once or twice a week.
The problem with the beans at Publix is there is no telling how long they have been on the shelf, which is bad.
If you go to Whole Foods, they have the roast date on them.
Get some Black Cat. If you order today, you'll probably be drinking it by Wednesday.

My buddy in Winter park has the same Jura setup with Illy beans and seems very happy as well.
I'm a bit overboard I guess and won't even buy orange juice at Publix and spend a couple hours a week squeezing the stuff I buy at the packing plant down the road from where I live.

Life is short, drink fresh is my motto.

[Tristan]

My 2 cents is spend the money on a good enough grinder $200-600 (refurbed Mazzer Super Jolly, new Macap M4 or Mazzer Mini) so you'll never need to upgrade and buy a refurbished espresso machine with the $ you have left over. That way, you can get by while you save $1000+ for an espresso machine that you'll probably never have to upgrade. Like a Quick Mill Anita or Vetrano.

A lot of people buy cheaper machines, even in the $500 range and still get upgrade-itis later. Might as well buy once and buy right.

To me, the grinder is much more important than the machine. You can have the ultimate machine and be using coffee that isn't ground properly and still have a poor outcome. Success if much more likely with fresh, properly ground coffee.

I personally use a Macap M4. I love it. I bought a refurbed Gaggia Carreza for $100. It's "almost" espresso and good enough to get us by for morning delights while I plan for purchasing a high end machine a few years down the road.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

They're fast. If Black Cat doesn't do the trick for you, nothing will. It is a consistent, exceptional blend that shines in espresso machines.

Black Cat tastes a little odd as a French Press bean. Outstanding in the espresso machine, no doubt.

As the years go by, I get less picky and/or cheap.

[floydpink]

I also swear by the Macap M4

By no means do I advocate doing this, but after messing around with a Gaggia machine and grinder, I discovered this wasn't a hobby that I was likely to outgrow, so I went all in and bought the Macap and a shiny machine with an E61 brew group and have never wondered when I wake up if my espresso is gonna be good since. I'm all in.

[germantown rob]

Don't do it! Pure insanity to want to make your own espresso at home, think of all the money you'll be taking out of the economy. If people find out what espresso is supposed to taste like who will give all those kids jobs to act like they know something about coffee and espresso?

If you insist to get into this home espresso thing then take everyones advice and think grinder first. Single Boiler/ Duel Use will make tasty espresso, the cult like following of Sylvia scream this, but they will not be making you many drinks very fast. HX machines will take care of as many drinks as you want and you will never have to wait for the machine, learning the cooling flush with an HX allows control over brew temperature. Double Boilers won't make a better espresso shot then an HX or a PID'ed single boiler (which will cost as much as an HX machine) but many allow you to set the desired brew temp and will have enough steam power to froth a few gallons of milk.

Have fun researching

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by germantown rob

...take everyones advice and think grinder first. Single Boiler/ Duel Use will make tasty espresso, the cult like following of Sylvia scream this, but they will not be making you many drinks very fast. HX machines will take care of as many drinks as you want and you will never have to wait for the machine, learning the cooling flush with an HX allows control over brew temperature. Double Boilers won't make a better espresso shot then an HX or a PID'ed single boiler (which will cost as much as an HX machine) but many allow you to set the desired brew temp and will have enough steam power to froth a few gallons of milk.

Have fun researching

This is a totally correct, lucid and well thought out conclusion. This is the way it is. Wish it wasn't, but it is. 'Effin' A.