Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues

11-09-2009, 03:35 PM

I am a young guy, 26 years old now, and I know many of you older guys have already dealt with insurance companies. Hell, one of you may sell life insurance yourself, so you could have a unique perspective on my question.

If I'm purchasing life insurance policy and I put down that I am a non-smoker (which, lets face it, we don't consider ourselves "smokers" in the usual sense of the word) and God forbid, I find out one day that I'm gonna die from cancer of the stomach or esophagus and lets say I do pass... will the insurance company be able to use my blog and say: "Oh he lied, he is a smoker, and it obviously contributed to his death. Sorry Mrs. Rocco we're denying your payout." ?

This is troubling for me, since I obviously have a cigar presence online, and even though I've never smoked cigarettes a day in my life and there is probably very little chance I will die of any cigar related illness, I worry they will do a quick search and use that against my wife in the event she ever needed to collect on the policy.

Anyone have any thoughts on this or, even better, experience with such a situation?

Thanks in advance.

wayner123 · 11-09-2009, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by covetry

I am a young guy, 26 years old now, and I know many of you older guys have already dealt with insurance companies. Hell, one of you may sell life insurance yourself, so you could have a unique perspective on my question.

If I'm purchasing life insurance policy and I put down that I am a non-smoker (which, lets face it, we don't consider ourselves "smokers" in the usual sense of the word) and God forbid, I find out one day that I'm gonna die from cancer of the stomach or esophagus and lets say I do pass... will the insurance company be able to use my blog and say: "Oh he lied, he is a smoker, and it obviously contributed to his death. Sorry Mrs. Rocco we're denying your payout." ?

This is troubling for me, since I obviously have a cigar presence online, and even though I've never smoked cigarettes a day in my life and there is probably very little chance I will die of any cigar related illness, I worry they will do a quick search and use that against my wife in the event she ever needed to collect on the policy.

Anyone have any thoughts on this or, even better, experience with such a situation?

Thanks in advance.

Does your insurance provider require a blood or urine test?

RightAJ · 11-09-2009, 03:37 PM

I have heard of some insurence companies differentiating between the two... you may want to just give them a call and state your case. Good luck (fingers crossed)

aj

e-man67 · 11-09-2009, 03:41 PM

My insurance tests and states the if you have used tobacco in the last 12 months it qualifies you as a tobacco user...I pay $25 extra per pay period (x 2 weeks) to smoke cigars. I may smoke 2 a week in the winter months and usually 5-9 per week in the warmer months (more like 5).

11-09-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayner123

Does your insurance provider require a blood or urine test?

No.

PeteSB75 · 11-09-2009, 03:43 PM

I would not call them. If you are going through a broker, most people do, talk to him about it. Remember that you are stating your physical health/state at the time of the policy writing.

Things will obviously change, like you could take up cigar smoking.They will likely require a blood/CO2 test to check if you smoke, so don't for at least a month before that happens.

Once the policy is written, it's a different question, as they can't take it away based on an increase in risk factors, or we'd all lose out getting older (biggest risk factor of all).

elderboy02 · 11-09-2009, 03:44 PM

I am subscribing to this thread. I also was starting to think about getting life ins.

T.G · 11-09-2009, 03:45 PM

This has been covered on other forums over the years and often times it ends up getting heated...

Best logical advice is that rather than trying to hide it/not claim it/cheat the insurance company is to simply shop around and find an insurance company that differentiates between the various forms of tobacco use. There are some that only have a minimal increase in rates for cigar smokers as compared to cigarette smokers. Then you're covered and you have nothing to worry about.

T.G · 11-09-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeteSB75

Once the policy is written, it's a different question, as they can't take it away based on an increase in risk factors, or we'd all lose out getting older (biggest risk factor of all).

Actually, most, if not all, of them can cancel you within a certain period of time (like a few years) - after that, most can't.

Difference between getting older and smoking is that getting older you have no choice in the matter. Smoking is a voluntarily chosen and assumed known health risk.

wayner123 · 11-09-2009, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.G

This has been covered on other forums over the years and often times it ends up getting heated...

Best logical advice is that rather than trying to hide it/not claim it/cheat the insurance company is to simply shop around and find an insurance company that differentiates between the various forms of tobacco use. There are some that only have a minimal increase in rates for cigar smokers as compared to cigarette smokers. Then you're covered and you have nothing to worry about.

This is sort of what I was getting at. If they don't require a blood test, then they might not consider cigars tobacco use. Just talk to your agent. And I use the motto, it's better safe than sorry.

T.G · 11-09-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.G

Actually, most, if not all, of them can cancel you within a certain period of time (like a few years) - after that, most can't.

Difference between getting older and smoking is that getting older you have no choice in the matter. Smoking is a voluntarily chosen and assumed known health risk.

Oh, and BTW, just to add to that...

If the insurance company cancels your policy due to tobacco use or refuses you because you claimed no tobacco use and they caught you with a blood test, then you have to declare on any future policy that you might apply for, that you have been refused coverage and why (if requested by the potential insurance company). This could quickly snowball on you into considerably higher rates than had you just found a carrier that would insure you for a little bit extra per quarter.

11-09-2009, 03:59 PM

I appreciate all the insight so far! I am definitely going to let my broker know about my cigar smoking and reservations and see what he says. I'm not as worried now as I was before.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer me!

Zanaspus · 11-09-2009, 04:01 PM

I sold insurance a long time ago in a galaxy far-far away. My first call would be to you state bureau of insurance. THEY are the true arbiters of what qualifies as misrepresentation and the statutes on it. Should you find there is a finite statute on misrepresentation (which is what you did, like it or not. Please don't flame me, it's the truth), then relax. If there is no finite statute on misrepresentation, I would shop for a company who does not consider cigar smoking as smoking in the normal sense.

Again, no disrespect, and I don't mean for this to get hot and heavy, but if you smoke cigars and answer "no" to a smoking question, it's just a legal fact.

Zanaspus · 11-09-2009, 04:03 PM

Also, if the person who sold it to you says it's ok, then you're golden. The burden would now rest on your agent and his Errors & Omissions insurance.

11-09-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanaspus

I sold insurance a long time ago in a galaxy far-far away. My first call would be to you state bureau of insurance. THEY are the true arbiters of what qualifies as misrepresentation and the statutes on it. Should you find there is a finite statute on misrepresentation (which is what you did, like it or not. Please don't flame me, it's the truth), then relax. If there is no finite statute on misrepresentation, I would shop for a company who does not consider cigar smoking as smoking in the normal sense.

Again, no disrespect, and I don't mean for this to get hot and heavy, but if you smoke cigars and answer "no" to a smoking question, it's just a legal fact.

None taken. And I know it is lying, although they are really looking to target cig smokers. I was just curious as to how some have handled it. I don't want to get a ridiculous rate because I put down 'yes' because the risk isn't anywhere close to the same between me and a smoker. I have yet to hear of any cigar-only smoker dying of a cigar related illness, although I'm sure there are some...

Thank you kindly for your advice.

Zanaspus · 11-09-2009, 04:09 PM

If the company says cigar smoking = smoking, find another one. There's a policy for every sensible risk group.

T.G · 11-09-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanaspus

Also, if the person who sold it to you says it's ok, then you're golden. The burden would now rest on your agent and his Errors & Omissions insurance.

While I do agree with you in principle, personally, I wouldn't want to base the belief that I would be covered when I shouldn't be all on a "he said / she said" argument. Now, maybe if it was in writing, it might, depending on the wording, be a bit more comforting to me to try and base my policy coverage on a mistake, but, again, maybe not even then. I see no point making my beneficiaries have to potentially get attorneys involved when it could have been easily and cheaply avoided.

captain53 · 11-09-2009, 04:35 PM

Insurance 101 - Find a way not to pay.
Insurance 102 - Look for false information on application
Insurance 103 - Smoking related death check around and see if he used Tobacco and last time I checked Cigars were Tobacco
Masters Degree - See if he was buying cigars, ask neighbors and friends, ask family, and keep checking till you find a way out of paying.
Insurance PHd - Tell the Mrs and Kids too bad!

MarkinAZ · 11-09-2009, 04:55 PM

Hello Anthony,

I would simply have an open conversation with your broker as mentioned above regarding your tobacco use. Your young and your broker should have a good stable of life insurance carriers to choose from that offer your age group a good premium for a life policy.

If a carrier had any feeling that you use tobacco, a good investigator could ascertain and resolve that issue

11-09-2009, 05:01 PM

In my opinion the simple answer is yes.

I told them 10 years ago that I was a tobacco user..............Cigars it changed my premium but I know that if something happens there is no way out. Full disclosure is the way to go.

I fully agree about talking to the broker and seeing if there are different rates for different usage levels.

The same question about Alcohol was asked of me.......do you use Alcohol I said yes.

Hell they even asked about drug use.........I simply asked for clarification..........as in I have tried Marijuana in the past (way past) but don't and won't use it going forward so that was a no.

11-09-2009, 03:35 PM	#1
covetry Guest Posts: n/a	Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues I am a young guy, 26 years old now, and I know many of you older guys have already dealt with insurance companies. Hell, one of you may sell life insurance yourself, so you could have a unique perspective on my question. If I'm purchasing life insurance policy and I put down that I am a non-smoker (which, lets face it, we don't consider ourselves "smokers" in the usual sense of the word) and God forbid, I find out one day that I'm gonna die from cancer of the stomach or esophagus and lets say I do pass... will the insurance company be able to use my blog and say: "Oh he lied, he is a smoker, and it obviously contributed to his death. Sorry Mrs. Rocco we're denying your payout." ? This is troubling for me, since I obviously have a cigar presence online, and even though I've never smoked cigarettes a day in my life and there is probably very little chance I will die of any cigar related illness, I worry they will do a quick search and use that against my wife in the event she ever needed to collect on the policy. Anyone have any thoughts on this or, even better, experience with such a situation? Thanks in advance.

11-09-2009, 03:37 PM	#3
RightAJ Here Franky Franky Join Date: Oct 2009 First Name: aj Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 915 Trading: (3)	Re: Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues I have heard of some insurence companies differentiating between the two... you may want to just give them a call and state your case. Good luck (fingers crossed) aj

11-09-2009, 03:41 PM	#4
e-man67 Big Drunkin Monkey!! Join Date: Mar 2009 First Name: Eric Posts: 1,480 Trading: (29)	Re: Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues My insurance tests and states the if you have used tobacco in the last 12 months it qualifies you as a tobacco user...I pay $25 extra per pay period (x 2 weeks) to smoke cigars. I may smoke 2 a week in the winter months and usually 5-9 per week in the warmer months (more like 5).

11-09-2009, 03:43 PM	#6
PeteSB75 Have My Own Room Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Pete Location: CT Posts: 1,674 Trading: (18)	Re: Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues I would not call them. If you are going through a broker, most people do, talk to him about it. Remember that you are stating your physical health/state at the time of the policy writing. Things will obviously change, like you could take up cigar smoking.They will likely require a blood/CO2 test to check if you smoke, so don't for at least a month before that happens. Once the policy is written, it's a different question, as they can't take it away based on an increase in risk factors, or we'd all lose out getting older (biggest risk factor of all). __________________ Formerly Malik23

11-09-2009, 03:44 PM	#7
elderboy02 Lets Go Buckeyes! Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Dan Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 12,508 Trading: (133)	Re: Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues I am subscribing to this thread. I also was starting to think about getting life ins.

11-09-2009, 03:45 PM	#8
T.G Grrrrrr Join Date: Mar 2009 First Name: The Other Adam Posts: 15,557 Trading: (37)	Re: Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues This has been covered on other forums over the years and often times it ends up getting heated... Best logical advice is that rather than trying to hide it/not claim it/cheat the insurance company is to simply shop around and find an insurance company that differentiates between the various forms of tobacco use. There are some that only have a minimal increase in rates for cigar smokers as compared to cigarette smokers. Then you're covered and you have nothing to worry about.

11-09-2009, 03:59 PM	#12
covetry Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues I appreciate all the insight so far! I am definitely going to let my broker know about my cigar smoking and reservations and see what he says. I'm not as worried now as I was before. Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer me!

11-09-2009, 04:01 PM	#13
Zanaspus Adjusting to the Life Join Date: Aug 2009 First Name: Tony Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 492 Trading: (3)	Re: Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues I sold insurance a long time ago in a galaxy far-far away. My first call would be to you state bureau of insurance. THEY are the true arbiters of what qualifies as misrepresentation and the statutes on it. Should you find there is a finite statute on misrepresentation (which is what you did, like it or not. Please don't flame me, it's the truth), then relax. If there is no finite statute on misrepresentation, I would shop for a company who does not consider cigar smoking as smoking in the normal sense. Again, no disrespect, and I don't mean for this to get hot and heavy, but if you smoke cigars and answer "no" to a smoking question, it's just a legal fact. __________________ If you're gonna be a lamb, you might as well be a sheep.

11-09-2009, 04:03 PM	#14
Zanaspus Adjusting to the Life Join Date: Aug 2009 First Name: Tony Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 492 Trading: (3)	Re: Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues Also, if the person who sold it to you says it's ok, then you're golden. The burden would now rest on your agent and his Errors & Omissions insurance. __________________ If you're gonna be a lamb, you might as well be a sheep.

11-09-2009, 04:09 PM	#16
Zanaspus Adjusting to the Life Join Date: Aug 2009 First Name: Tony Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 492 Trading: (3)	Re: Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues If the company says cigar smoking = smoking, find another one. There's a policy for every sensible risk group. __________________ If you're gonna be a lamb, you might as well be a sheep.

11-09-2009, 04:35 PM	#18
captain53 Have My Own Room Join Date: Jul 2009 First Name: Dave Location: Lake of the Ozarks & Austin, TX Posts: 1,333 Trading: (3)	Re: Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues Insurance 101 - Find a way not to pay. Insurance 102 - Look for false information on application Insurance 103 - Smoking related death check around and see if he used Tobacco and last time I checked Cigars were Tobacco Masters Degree - See if he was buying cigars, ask neighbors and friends, ask family, and keep checking till you find a way out of paying. Insurance PHd - Tell the Mrs and Kids too bad!

11-09-2009, 04:55 PM	#19
MarkinAZ Formerly MarkinOR Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Mark Location: Sun City West, AZ Posts: 6,221 Trading: (40)	Re: Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues Hello Anthony, I would simply have an open conversation with your broker as mentioned above regarding your tobacco use. Your young and your broker should have a good stable of life insurance carriers to choose from that offer your age group a good premium for a life policy. If a carrier had any feeling that you use tobacco, a good investigator could ascertain and resolve that issue __________________ "Don't worry, God will work out His plan for your life..." Psalm 138 8

11-09-2009, 05:01 PM	#20
SilverFox Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Cigars & Life-Insurance... some real issues In my opinion the simple answer is yes. I told them 10 years ago that I was a tobacco user..............Cigars it changed my premium but I know that if something happens there is no way out. Full disclosure is the way to go. I fully agree about talking to the broker and seeing if there are different rates for different usage levels. The same question about Alcohol was asked of me.......do you use Alcohol I said yes. Hell they even asked about drug use.........I simply asked for clarification..........as in I have tried Marijuana in the past (way past) but don't and won't use it going forward so that was a no.