Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?

jjirons69 · 07-17-2012, 03:47 PM

It's in discussion, but it seems the NCAA is waiting to see what punishment Penn State gives itself. The NCAA is not big on the death penalty because it can be quite a crippler, but the Sandusky coverup may make them move on it. If Penn State ends up punishing itself pretty extensively, the NCAA may say it's punishment enough. Looks like they're waiting on each other.

I say they meant to cover up what they could in an effort not to hurt the program, thus losing millions and millions in revenue and highly-praised recruits. They would not have overlooked the same actions by a chem lab teaching assistant. He'd been out on his azz.

jonumberone · 07-17-2012, 03:57 PM

I'm not in favor of any punishment for Penn State!
While it was a heinous crime, and the cover-up is reprehensible, those involved are no longer involved with the program.
Punishing Penn State football will only hurt the students and slow the rebuilding of a program, that is desperate to heal.

The Poet · 07-17-2012, 04:00 PM

I am not one of those people who have a problem with the "abuse of power" critics of the NCAA are fond of citing, though I do confess I found their recent slamming of CalTech's athletic programs to be ludicrous. And there is no doubt the heinous abuses Sandusky performed far outweigh any the NCAA could perform, nor do I argue the point Jamie makes regarding a possible cover-up attempt in State College. That being said, I do question if this issue lays outside the purview of the NCAA. Shoot, they don't even have a policy regarding criminal activities by athletes such as drug use or DWIs, so how can they take a stand on this?

I'm not saying they shouldn't, and I would have no complaint if they did impose a death penalty . . . still, I wonder at their authority to do so.

CigarNut · 07-17-2012, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonumberone

I'm not in favor of any punishment for Penn State!
While it was a heinous crime, and the cover-up is reprehensible, those involved are no longer involved with the program.
Punishing Penn State football will only hurt the students and slow the rebuilding of a program, that is desperate to heal.

This is a civil matter, not an NCAA matter and the civil authorities are pursuing and prosecuting as they should. The NCAA should stick to sports. Just my

E.J. · 07-17-2012, 05:09 PM

I don't have a strong opinion either way, though for those saying "no" related to the NCAA overstepping their bounds, what about "lack of institutional control"? To me, this seems to fit that bill perfectly.....

IMO, this is not just a civil matter, it is something that needs to be looked at by the NCAA We are talking about those in power at an institution covering up the worst of crimes, for years and years of ongoing abuse, to keep their clean reputation money making machine running.

For the record, I'd rather see the NCAA allow athletes get new cars and envelopes of cash as opposed to letting coaches, and friends of the program, rape kids and have it covered up as to not tarnish the illusion created....

E.J. · 07-17-2012, 05:15 PM

Oh and just to be clear, I think Penn State does need to feel this with some sort of sanctions. I don't have a strong opinion as far as them getting the Death Penalty, but yes....as an institution, they lost control and that needs to be addressed. It is unfortunate that when this stuff happens(sanctions), it usually hurts those that had no involvement....but that is the way the ball bounces with this stuff....

Stephen · 07-17-2012, 05:21 PM

The NCAA needs to get involved with this about as much as Congress needed to hold hearings on steroids in MLB...

E.J. · 07-17-2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

The NCAA needs to get involved with this about as much as Congress needed to hold hearings on steroids in MLB...

So an NCAA institution that broke laws to cover their asses & reputation, shouldn't be addressed by their governing body..hummmmm

oooo35980 · 07-17-2012, 06:43 PM

I believe they should be punished as an example to others, they did all this covering up to protect the program, for the NCAA to do nothing would amount to "Meh, as long as you didn't cheat it isn't our problem". With something this huge the pressure has to be on them to do something anyway, I don't think Penn State will be getting out of this alive.

Stephen · 07-18-2012, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.J.

So an NCAA institution that broke laws to cover their asses & reputation, shouldn't be addressed by their governing body..hummmmm

Because the issue at hand has zilch to do with athletics or collegiate athletes that are governed by the NCAA. Concealing evidence in a criminal investigation, however heinous the crime(s), doesn't give them jurisdiction (because none of their bylaws were violated). This is a lynch mob out for blood. Nothing more, nothing less.

Subvet642 · 07-18-2012, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.J.

I don't have a strong opinion either way, though for those saying "no" related to the NCAA overstepping their bounds, what about "lack of institutional control"? To me, this seems to fit that bill perfectly.....

IMO, this is not just a civil matter, it is something that needs to be looked at by the NCAA We are talking about those in power at an institution covering up the worst of crimes, for years and years of ongoing abuse, to keep their clean reputation money making machine running.

For the record, I'd rather see the NCAA allow athletes get new cars and envelopes of cash as opposed to letting coaches, and friends of the program, rape kids and have it covered up as to not tarnish the illusion created....

I'm with you, but I'd go a step further; kill the whole damned school, revoke their charter, pull all their grants. That place was Hell for, what, 14 years? How many children were tortured there? Screw the damned school! The institution, by it's acquiescence, permitted it to happen and therefore the whole institution should be held accountable. The survival of Penn State isn't worth one second of the pain, horror and misery those children went through, and to suggest that it's unfair to the professors, staff and students to close it down, I think that would be akin keeping the Nazi death camps open because the guards need the jobs.

smitty81 · 07-18-2012, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonumberone

I'm not in favor of any punishment for Penn State!
While it was a heinous crime, and the cover-up is reprehensible, those involved are no longer involved with the program.
Punishing Penn State football will only hurt the students and slow the rebuilding of a program, that is desperate to heal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CigarNut

This is a civil matter, not an NCAA matter and the civil authorities are pursuing and prosecuting as they should. The NCAA should stick to sports. Just my

The coaches and players represent the team and university with their actions. They are always in the spotlight.

What your saying is like saying if a football player got caught selling drugs, let the court handle it, there should be no punishment from the NCAA.

I'm sorry, but I disagree.

When you are a player or coach, you agree to abide by the rules and set a good example. When you mess up, your going to have to pay for the consequences.

If this happened with professors at Penn state, there would be no NCAA punishment as they are not affiliated with sports obviously.

The NCAA is the government of the athletic student body and coaching staff. If someone messes up, it's their job to take correct actions if necessary.

This sort of thing happens all the time with players. They get a DUI or in a fight or drugs charges. They obviously have court but often, if the coaches don't deal with it like they should, the NCAA will step in with a proper punishment.

I would be curious to see if the players have to sign any sort of contract once they star playing any NCAA sports basically saying that they accept the NCAA as their governing system and they agree to this and that................yadda yadda yadda.

jonumberone · 07-18-2012, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oooo35980

I believe they should be punished as an example to others,

If you lack the moral character to make the right decision by yourself, will a possible penalty from the NCAA really matter?

The people involved are gone.
All the Coaches are gone.
The AD is gone as well as his assistants.
The school President is gone.
Exactly who do you want to punish?

If you want to ban the above people from ever being involved in any NCAA activity, fine.
But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.

smitty81 · 07-18-2012, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Because the issue at hand has zilch to do with athletics or collegiate athletes that are governed by the NCAA. Concealing evidence in a criminal investigation, however heinous the crime(s), doesn't give them jurisdiction (because none of their bylaws were violated). This is a lynch mob out for blood. Nothing more, nothing less.

Are you kidding?

It has a LOT to do with the College athletics (NCAA).

A LOT of this happened ON campus in the LOCKER ROOM. The coaches covered it up so it wouldn't hurt their football program.

Sure, the NCAA doesn't have the authority to take legal actions like the court system but they have their own set of laws and rules that you have to agree to if you are going to be affiliated. Thats just how it is and it's always been that way.

I think your a little off track here.

I am no lynch mob, I believe in fair punishment in the court system and on the NCAA side of things. My opinion is an unbiased opinion.

smitty81 · 07-18-2012, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonumberone

If you lack the moral character to make the right decision by yourself, will a possible penalty from the NCAA really matter?

The people involved are gone.
All the Coaches are gone.
The AD is gone as well as his assistants.
The school President is gone.
Exactly who do you want to punish?

If you want to ban the above people from ever being involved in any NCAA activity, fine.
But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.

This is a good point here. Your punishing Students and people that have nothing to do with this.

I don't know, I have mixed feelings about a punishment on the team.

jonumberone · 07-18-2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty81

The coaches and players represent the team and university with their actions. They are always in the spotlight.

What your saying is like saying if a football player got caught selling drugs, let the court handle it, there should be no punishment from the NCAA.

If a player get's caught selling drugs, the Player is punished

I'm sorry, but I disagree.

When you are a player or coach, you agree to abide by the rules and set a good example. When you mess up, your going to have to pay for the consequences.

I am all for punishing the men involved in this!

If this happened with professors at Penn state, there would be no NCAA punishment as they are not affiliated with sports obviously.

The NCAA is the government of the athletic student body and coaching staff. If someone messes up, it's their job to take correct actions if necessary.

The Penn State Trustee's have taken action by removing everyone involved

This sort of thing happens all the time with players. They get a DUI or in a fight or drugs charges. They obviously have court but often, if the coaches don't deal with it like they should, the NCAA will step in with a proper punishment.

I would be curious to see if the players have to sign any sort of contract once they star playing any NCAA sports basically saying that they accept the NCAA as their governing system and they agree to this and that................yadda yadda yadda.

My response in red

smitty81 · 07-18-2012, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonumberone

My response in red

I think we are probably on the same page......

14holestogie · 07-18-2012, 08:18 AM

Death penalty? No, but some sanctions are in order. No bowls for a couple seasons, the loss of a few scholarships and the like would be the usual fate.
Like it has been said, the main parties have all been removed and punished, but the school still is culpable to the NCAA.

King James · 07-18-2012, 09:01 AM

The problem with giving Penn State the death penalty is that there technically were no NCAA rules on the books that were violated, and rule violations are required in order to give the death penalty for a lack of institutional control. It will be interesting to see if the NCAA concocts a reason, and what kind of precedent that would set for handing out NCAA sanctions regarding criminal activity within an athletic program

E.J. · 07-18-2012, 09:05 AM

Stephen, Josh pretty much covered why it is a football issue...it is clear that this is more than just some criminal happening, it was enmeshed within the football program....if you cannot see that, well......we can agree to disagree.

Dom, like I stated previously, punishing the school is just how this stuff is done. Same thing with any violations. I am all in favor of the NCAA tagging coaches/administrators like they did with Sweater Vest, but the school as an institution needs to be held accountable as well. It is unfortunate that there is collateral damage, but it is just how it goes. You cannot just say, everyone is gone, let's move forward....

07-17-2012, 03:47 PM	#1
jjirons69 Haberdasher Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Jamie Location: Chucktown, SC Posts: 4,120 Trading: (94)	Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? It's in discussion, but it seems the NCAA is waiting to see what punishment Penn State gives itself. The NCAA is not big on the death penalty because it can be quite a crippler, but the Sandusky coverup may make them move on it. If Penn State ends up punishing itself pretty extensively, the NCAA may say it's punishment enough. Looks like they're waiting on each other. I say they meant to cover up what they could in an effort not to hurt the program, thus losing millions and millions in revenue and highly-praised recruits. They would not have overlooked the same actions by a chem lab teaching assistant. He'd been out on his azz. __________________ Somebody has to go back and get a chitload of dimes

07-17-2012, 03:57 PM	#2
jonumberone Raw Dog Join Date: Jun 2010 First Name: Dom Location: Exit 8A Posts: 6,484 Trading: (62)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? I'm not in favor of any punishment for Penn State! While it was a heinous crime, and the cover-up is reprehensible, those involved are no longer involved with the program. Punishing Penn State football will only hurt the students and slow the rebuilding of a program, that is desperate to heal. __________________ Sex junkie looking for a dealer

07-17-2012, 04:00 PM	#3
The Poet Il megglior fabbro Join Date: Jun 2009 First Name: Thomas Location: Hickory, NC Posts: 8,420 Trading: (2)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? I am not one of those people who have a problem with the "abuse of power" critics of the NCAA are fond of citing, though I do confess I found their recent slamming of CalTech's athletic programs to be ludicrous. And there is no doubt the heinous abuses Sandusky performed far outweigh any the NCAA could perform, nor do I argue the point Jamie makes regarding a possible cover-up attempt in State College. That being said, I do question if this issue lays outside the purview of the NCAA. Shoot, they don't even have a policy regarding criminal activities by athletes such as drug use or DWIs, so how can they take a stand on this? I'm not saying they shouldn't, and I would have no complaint if they did impose a death penalty . . . still, I wonder at their authority to do so. __________________ Ninety percent of everything is crap - Theodore Sturgeon.

07-17-2012, 05:09 PM	#5
E.J. I'm nuts for the place Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 3,218 Trading: (21)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? I don't have a strong opinion either way, though for those saying "no" related to the NCAA overstepping their bounds, what about "lack of institutional control"? To me, this seems to fit that bill perfectly..... IMO, this is not just a civil matter, it is something that needs to be looked at by the NCAA We are talking about those in power at an institution covering up the worst of crimes, for years and years of ongoing abuse, to keep their clean reputation money making machine running. For the record, I'd rather see the NCAA allow athletes get new cars and envelopes of cash as opposed to letting coaches, and friends of the program, rape kids and have it covered up as to not tarnish the illusion created....

07-17-2012, 05:15 PM	#6
E.J. I'm nuts for the place Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 3,218 Trading: (21)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? Oh and just to be clear, I think Penn State does need to feel this with some sort of sanctions. I don't have a strong opinion as far as them getting the Death Penalty, but yes....as an institution, they lost control and that needs to be addressed. It is unfortunate that when this stuff happens(sanctions), it usually hurts those that had no involvement....but that is the way the ball bounces with this stuff....

07-17-2012, 05:21 PM	#7
Stephen Sultan of Cigars Join Date: Jan 2011 First Name: Stephen Location: Where the Pony Express began and Jesse James ended. Posts: 1,582 Trading: (18)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? The NCAA needs to get involved with this about as much as Congress needed to hold hearings on steroids in MLB...

07-17-2012, 06:43 PM	#9
oooo35980 Feeling at Home Join Date: Mar 2011 First Name: Isaiah Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 569 Trading: (3)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? I believe they should be punished as an example to others, they did all this covering up to protect the program, for the NCAA to do nothing would amount to "Meh, as long as you didn't cheat it isn't our problem". With something this huge the pressure has to be on them to do something anyway, I don't think Penn State will be getting out of this alive.

07-18-2012, 08:18 AM	#18
14holestogie Serial banter killer Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Tim Location: Clintonville, WI Posts: 4,341 Trading: (52)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? Death penalty? No, but some sanctions are in order. No bowls for a couple seasons, the loss of a few scholarships and the like would be the usual fate. Like it has been said, the main parties have all been removed and punished, but the school still is culpable to the NCAA. __________________ *I loves me a Parti*

07-18-2012, 09:01 AM	#19
King James Regard Me! Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Jim Location: Dark Side Of The Moon Posts: 2,565 Trading: (2)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? The problem with giving Penn State the death penalty is that there technically were no NCAA rules on the books that were violated, and rule violations are required in order to give the death penalty for a lack of institutional control. It will be interesting to see if the NCAA concocts a reason, and what kind of precedent that would set for handing out NCAA sanctions regarding criminal activity within an athletic program __________________ Mob Herfin' Since 2006

07-18-2012, 09:05 AM	#20
E.J. I'm nuts for the place Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 3,218 Trading: (21)	Re: Should Penn State get the Death Penalty? Stephen, Josh pretty much covered why it is a football issue...it is clear that this is more than just some criminal happening, it was enmeshed within the football program....if you cannot see that, well......we can agree to disagree. Dom, like I stated previously, punishing the school is just how this stuff is done. Same thing with any violations. I am all in favor of the NCAA tagging coaches/administrators like they did with Sweater Vest, but the school as an institution needs to be held accountable as well. It is unfortunate that there is collateral damage, but it is just how it goes. You cannot just say, everyone is gone, let's move forward....