Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by Stephen

The NCAA needs to get involved with this about as much as Congress needed to hold hearings on steroids in MLB...

So an NCAA institution that broke laws to cover their asses & reputation, shouldn't be addressed by their governing body..hummmmm

[oooo35980]

I believe they should be punished as an example to others, they did all this covering up to protect the program, for the NCAA to do nothing would amount to "Meh, as long as you didn't cheat it isn't our problem". With something this huge the pressure has to be on them to do something anyway, I don't think Penn State will be getting out of this alive.

[jonumberone]

Originally Posted by oooo35980

I believe they should be punished as an example to others,

If you lack the moral character to make the right decision by yourself, will a possible penalty from the NCAA really matter?


The people involved are gone.
All the Coaches are gone.
The AD is gone as well as his assistants.
The school President is gone.
Exactly who do you want to punish?

If you want to ban the above people from ever being involved in any NCAA activity, fine.
But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.

[smitty81]

Originally Posted by jonumberone

If you lack the moral character to make the right decision by yourself, will a possible penalty from the NCAA really matter?


The people involved are gone.
All the Coaches are gone.
The AD is gone as well as his assistants.
The school President is gone.
Exactly who do you want to punish?

If you want to ban the above people from ever being involved in any NCAA activity, fine.
But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.

This is a good point here. Your punishing Students and people that have nothing to do with this.

I don't know, I have mixed feelings about a punishment on the team.

[Dave128]

Originally Posted by jonumberone

If you lack the moral character to make the right decision by yourself, will a possible penalty from the NCAA really matter?


The people involved are gone.
All the Coaches are gone.
The AD is gone as well as his assistants.
The school President is gone.
Exactly who do you want to punish?

If you want to ban the above people from ever being involved in any NCAA activity, fine.
But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.

This should do the trick, along with ripping down Paterno's statue. The rest of the school, as long as there hasn't been found that it has any further involvement, should be left as is. The current and incoming student body will ultimately decide the fate of the school with their collective pocket books (i.e I wouldn't send my kid there).

[MrWolf55]

Originally Posted by Dave128

This should do the trick, along with ripping down Paterno's statue. The rest of the school, as long as there hasn't been found that it has any further involvement, should be left as is. The current and incoming student body will ultimately decide the fate of the school with their collective pocket books (i.e I wouldn't send my kid there).

+1

I'm in this camp personally. Everyone who was involved in the incident is gone, and I think to shut down the program would just involve too much collateral damage. Equipment mangers, medical staff, ticket sales people, Radio & TV guys - they're all out of a job even though they had nothing to do with the scandal. But I think the people it hurts the most are the athletes, who really had nothing to do with the decisions their coaches were making. I think they'll be the ones punished the most in the long run if the ax comes down on the program.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by jonumberone

If you lack the moral character to make the right decision by yourself, will a possible penalty from the NCAA really matter?


The people involved are gone.
All the Coaches are gone.
The AD is gone as well as his assistants.
The school President is gone.
Exactly who do you want to punish?

If you want to ban the above people from ever being involved in any NCAA activity, fine.
But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.

This.

[dave]

Originally Posted by jonumberone

But what is left of Penn State, wasn't involved.

Involved? In what? The rapes and the coverups? Maybe not. But many were involved in the insane rallys/riots in support of JoePa when everyone in the country outside of Happy Valley was already either uneasy or queasy about him? Many (All?) of those you're hoping to shield from harm benefited from and/or were supported by the cover-up and lack of accountability in the institution and protection of the football program.

Penn State IS football to an awful lot of people - inside and outside that community. I would have no issue with a death penalty - or any other penalty that deprives Penn State of its football program for years.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by dave

Involved? In what? The rapes and the coverups? Maybe not. But many were involved in the insane rallys/riots in support of JoePa when everyone in the country outside of Happy Valley was already either uneasy or queasy about him? Many (All?) of those you're hoping to shield from harm benefited from and/or were supported by the cover-up and lack of accountability in the institution and protection of the football program.

Penn State IS football to an awful lot of people - inside and outside that community. I would have no issue with a death penalty - or any other penalty that deprives Penn State of its football program for years.

So what you want is vengeance, not justice. Gotcha...

[King James]

Originally Posted by dave

Involved? In what? The rapes and the coverups? Maybe not. But many were involved in the insane rallys/riots in support of JoePa when everyone in the country outside of Happy Valley was already either uneasy or queasy about him? Many (All?) of those you're hoping to shield from harm benefited from and/or were supported by the cover-up and lack of accountability in the institution and protection of the football program.

Penn State IS football to an awful lot of people - inside and outside that community. I would have no issue with a death penalty - or any other penalty that deprives Penn State of its football program for years.

You are suggesting that the community should be punished for supporting Paterno when the available evidence at that time was that Paterno reported the info about Sandusky to his superiors but didn't do more when he should have? There was no evidence at that point that he actively tried to cover it up.

Or you are suggesting that the entire Penn State community should now be punished because they benefitted from a program that covered up the heinous acts of Sandusky? Heinous acts that they in no way knew of.

Plus, none of this changes the fact that in order to issue the death penalty, there is supposed to be an actual violation of an NCAA rule.

I'm all for punishing the people involved. Take away the schools victories since 1998 so that Paterno is no longer the winningest coach, make his family pay back the 5 million retirement package, tear down the statute, make the university pay out their ass in civil court. I can't, however, support retroactively punishing the football program when all active parties are no longer there to suffer from the punishments.

[jonumberone]

Originally Posted by dave

Involved? In what? The rapes and the coverups? Maybe not. But many were involved in the insane rallys/riots in support of JoePa when everyone in the country outside of Happy Valley was already either uneasy or queasy about him? Many (All?) of those you're hoping to shield from harm benefited from and/or were supported by the cover-up and lack of accountability in the institution and protection of the football program.

Penn State IS football to an awful lot of people - inside and outside that community. I would have no issue with a death penalty - or any other penalty that deprives Penn State of its football program for years.

You're right, Dave.
I can't think of any other instances where college kids organized and rioted for a cause in which they didn't have all the facts,
and made rushes in judgement based upon what their friends were doing, and word of mouth around the campus.

Let's run through some other scenarios

A coach is at home, get's drunk, and slaps his wife around.
A coach is involved in a deadly auto accident, in which he caused by speeding
A coach is arrested for DUI

Should any of these crimes cause a school to lose it's sports program? Why?

I understand that what happened is awful, and I get why people are upset, I just don't see where this is an NCAA issue.

Also, after the Cathedral, Capitol, Pyramid, institution, insert your own metaphor for power, is toppled, I don't see the point in pissing on the rubble!

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by jonumberone

A coach is at home, get's drunk, and slaps his wife around.
A coach is involved in a deadly auto accident, in which he caused by speeding
A coach is arrested for DUI

Should any of these crimes cause a school to lose it's sports program? Why?

Your metaphor is too far apart from what happened....

A coach is a serial killer for years and years and the administration covers it up.... Yea, the NCAA needs to do something....

Just a little confused here.. So the Penn State Football program that allowed the rape of young boys in Penn State showers didn't break any ncaa rules?

[jonumberone]

Originally Posted by E.J.

Your metaphor is too far apart from what happened....

A coach is a serial killer for years and years and the administration covers it up.... Yea, the NCAA needs to do something....

Why?
Assuming the Murders have come to light, as has the cover-up, where all involved in the crimes are being prosecuted by the law, Why does the NCAA need to do something?
If the NCAA acts who are they punishing?

To elaborate on your point.
If a Vice president of Goldman Sachs is a serial killer, and the CEO covers it up, does Goldman have to go out of business?
Should the S.E.C. get involved?
Or would the crime of murder and the cover-up be handled by the F.B.I. and the courts?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by E.J.

So an NCAA institution that broke laws to cover their asses & reputation, shouldn't be addressed by their governing body..hummmmm

Because the issue at hand has zilch to do with athletics or collegiate athletes that are governed by the NCAA. Concealing evidence in a criminal investigation, however heinous the crime(s), doesn't give them jurisdiction (because none of their bylaws were violated). This is a lynch mob out for blood. Nothing more, nothing less.

[smitty81]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Because the issue at hand has zilch to do with athletics or collegiate athletes that are governed by the NCAA. Concealing evidence in a criminal investigation, however heinous the crime(s), doesn't give them jurisdiction (because none of their bylaws were violated). This is a lynch mob out for blood. Nothing more, nothing less.

Are you kidding?

It has a LOT to do with the College athletics (NCAA).

A LOT of this happened ON campus in the LOCKER ROOM. The coaches covered it up so it wouldn't hurt their football program.

Sure, the NCAA doesn't have the authority to take legal actions like the court system but they have their own set of laws and rules that you have to agree to if you are going to be affiliated. Thats just how it is and it's always been that way.

I think your a little off track here.

I am no lynch mob, I believe in fair punishment in the court system and on the NCAA side of things. My opinion is an unbiased opinion.

[King James]

The problem with giving Penn State the death penalty is that there technically were no NCAA rules on the books that were violated, and rule violations are required in order to give the death penalty for a lack of institutional control. It will be interesting to see if the NCAA concocts a reason, and what kind of precedent that would set for handing out NCAA sanctions regarding criminal activity within an athletic program

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by King James

The problem with giving Penn State the death penalty is that there technically were no NCAA rules on the books that were violated, and rule violations are required in order to give the death penalty for a lack of institutional control. It will be interesting to see if the NCAA concocts a reason, and what kind of precedent that would set for handing out NCAA sanctions regarding criminal activity within an athletic program

Which is my point. There were no NCAA infractions. If they do take action it'll be unprecedented.

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by Stephen

If they do take action it'll be unprecedented.

As is what they are dealing with.....

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by E.J.

As is what they are dealing with.....

Not really. Unless you're willing to believe that no university has covered up criminal activity within their athletics department before. And if that's the case, I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale...