NFL's new safety policy

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Objectively speaking, overall that Rams offense was better because of Marshall Faulk. The Packers have nothing remotely close to a player that can do what he did. That said, I'll take Rodgers & the Packers wide receiver corps (including tight ends) over the Rams anyday of the week. The Packers win by sheer numbers, as they have six legit targets at Rodgers disposal, whereas Warner really only had Bruce/Holt/Hakim/Proehl and the aforementioned Faulk.

And even with that short core of receivers, in '09 the Rams went for 5,232 yards in the air.
It's the NFL single season team record.
The Pack has 3,960 yards in the air right now with 3 games in hand and a 27th ranked running game.

I. Don't know if Harrison is on the juice or HGH or not.

I do know he has a freakish bony head, just like Barry, and that is a prime sign of HGH abuse.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

If Rothisberger is a top ten QB, and I'm not even willing to concede THAT, the only reason is most QBs in the league right now are about as good as Curtis Painter, in other words they blow.

The Steelers win in spite of him, not because of him.. He's more Mark Sanchez than he is Peyton Manning

He's the 3rd best QB in his division, and Colt McCoy could be pretty daggum good if he had a bit of an OL to keep him clean. He is a heck of a game manager and a big body, but the team could win with most QB's under center. This is certainly not a Peyton Manning effect, where they would be 0'fer without him.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

He's the 3rd best QB in his division, and Colt McCoy could be pretty daggum good if he had a bit of an OL to keep him clean. He is a heck of a game manager and a big body, but the team could win with most QB's under center. This is certainly not a Peyton Manning effect, where they would be 0'fer without him.

Wow. Just wow...

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

If Rothisberger is a top ten QB, and I'm not even willing to concede THAT, the only reason is most QBs in the league right now are about as good as Curtis Painter, in other words they blow.

The Steelers win in spite of him, not because of him.. He's more Mark Sanchez than he is Peyton Manning

Please list ten quarterbacks better than Ben Roethlisberger than are playing right now. This should be good.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Please list ten quarterbacks better than Ben Roethlisberger than are playing right now. This should be good.

Brady
Manning
Rodgers
Ryan
Rivers
Flacco
Dalton
Newton
Stafford
Brees
Romo
Tebow

Not playing, but still better:
Schaub
Manning

[Mikey202]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

Sorry Scott, but all you have to do to see that that statement is not true is go read the Steeler thread right here on CA.

Without even going back and looking I can think of at least Loki on this forum and Mikey too I believe who defended Rothlisberger through hell and high water, regardless of the evidence of the things he's done off the field.

As far as joking about Harrisons hit, I wasn't. If you watched the game, he did go over to McCoy and say he was sorry, or my bad, whatever.

As far as, "defending" Rothlisberger, I come from the position of a realist.

Big Ben was at a party with women over the age of 18. These women, according to the article that I read in Sports Illustrated, were walking around with R.T.F. name badges on,( If you don't know what that means it means Ready To Fuc*). It's not like he was in some alleyway, scoping out women. What happened is what happened. I don't condone rape, rapists or sexual deviants.Evidence? If it was factual than why is he not in jail? Someone got paid off. NFL players go to jail don't they? And is he the first to not go when there was "evidence". Won't even start on Ray Lewis's case.

IMHO, he is stupid to put himself in that situation, again, and again. He was never charged with a crime. If he commited a crime and paid people off, then what are you going to do about it? Money is power. There are bad people in the world.

I would think that if this happened to one of my daughters, I wouldn't take all the money in the world to keep quiet. If people where paid off, then shame on them, for selling their daughters off like pimps.

My final statement on Big Ben is this, based on people that I have personally talked with. Those people being a life long friend who is a veteran Pittsburgh Police /SWAT Sniper, and from 2 hour conversation I had 4 summers ago with the Pittsburgh Steeler events coordinator, standing outside Hienz Field.
Big Ben as a person is very suspect, and an arrogant azzhole.
He likes to party, he likes to do things his way. They paid him alot of money, and to pay him that money, they took money from alot of people in the front office, and office staff salaries. So he's not very popular. He seems to have matured or changed. Don't know. I don't hang out with him.
I wanted him to be traded, they didn't. So being that, I want him to win football games for my football team.
When he retires, he can take his Motorcycle and drive it into a bridge support at 220 mph for all I care.

As for James Harrison, he plays with the same attitude as some of the Great defensive players now in the Hall of Fame. If you don't think that players like Deacon Jones, Jack Lambert, Mean Joe Greene, Lawence Taylor, Dick Butkus, Ronnie Lott, Ray Nitschke, ect. didn't play with the attitude, of outright hurting the guy on the other side of the ball and enjoyed playing that way, then do yourself a huge favor, before you watch another football game. Go and read or watch some of the interviews with these players.

The game is changing. Coach Tomlin even said Harrison has to change, or he won't play.

I worked with a guy who's brother played Offensive line in the NFL back in the day. He said,It was a standing order from the coaching staff, that when they played against Lyle Alzado, they where to try and blow his knee out. And they had no problem trying to complete that mission.

Football his a violent sport, played by people. And guess what, some of those people are bad human beings. And another fact is not all of them, play or have played for the Pittsburgh Steelers. The latest being, wannabe Scarface, Sam Hurd.

IMHO the helmet to helmet/ concussion / player safety issue was never a big deal until the family of Mike Webster, ( God forbid,a HOF Steeler) sued the NFL on the basis players, were being used and abused for the game/profit/$$$ and the NFL basically not giving a sh*t, about them in thier later years and the players union got involved, also.Somone correct me if I'm mistaken. The NFL is more worried about liability. If they weren't, this would have been and issue decades ago.

For the record, I don't want to see anyone disabled, hurt for life. I'm not apologizing for being a Steeler fan , and supporting the players who play for my team.
As for the insinuation that I'm morally inept, for doing so. Well, ya'll can get down off your moral high-horse and kiss my Black and Gold azz.

[yourchoice]

Originally Posted by Mikey202

As for James Harrison, he plays with the same attitude as some of the Great defensive players now in the Hall of Fame. If you don't think that players like Deacon Jones, Jack Lambert, Mean Joe Greene, Lawence Taylor, Dick Butkus, Ronnie Lott, Ray Nitschke, ect. didn't play with the attitude, of outright hurting the guy on the other side of the ball and enjoyed playing that way, then do yourself a huge favor, before you watch another football game. Go and read or watch some of the interviews with these players.

Playing with attitude is great. I wish more Eagles did! I just think the consistent lack of form tackling makes him...and many other players (many Steelers, but certainly not just Steelers) seem like cheap shot artists. Wrap your friggin' arms, and you won't look like you're trying to spear and injure every damn player you tackle! Here's three photos...see the difference?

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Brady
Manning
Rodgers
Ryan
Rivers
Flacco
Dalton
Newton
Stafford
Brees
Romo
Tebow

Not playing, but still better:
Schaub
Manning

I'd say fairly accurate

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Brady
Manning
Rodgers
Ryan
Rivers
Flacco
Dalton
Newton
Stafford
Brees
Romo
Tebow

Not playing, but still better:
Schaub
Manning

The fact that you list two rookie quarterbacks (and Tebow jokingly) that have done jack squat in this league tells me all I need to know. Probably best to save that two cents to put towards buying yourself a clue.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

I'd say fairly accurate

I'd say people have a hard time separating Ben Roethlisberger the NFL quarterback from Ben Roethlisberger the human being.

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'd say people have a hard time separating Ben Roethlisberger the NFL quarterback from Ben Roethlisberger the human being.

Not really Stephen.

We all have our perceptions of what makes a great QB. I AM NOT a fan of game manager Qbs. Just not.

I've never, and doubt I'll ever, seen, or heard anyone say, "wow, what a great throw" when referring to Rothlisberger. To me he's just another version of Trent Dilfer or Mark Sanchez, or any one of a number of qbs who benefit from the team, particularly the defense around them. None of them are ever going to WIN a game for you, ttheyre r just asked not to lose the game for the team. to me,mthe former is what makes a great NFL qb

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

Not really Stephen.

We all have our perceptions of what makes a great QB. I AM NOT a fan of game manager Qbs. Just not.

I've never, and doubt I'll ever, seen, or heard anyone say, "wow, what a great throw" when referring to Rothlisberger. To me he's just another version of Trent Dilfer or Mark Sanchez, or any one of a number of qbs who benefit from the team, particularly the defense around them. None of them are ever going to WIN a game for you, ttheyre r just asked not to lose the game for the team. to me,mthe former is what makes a great NFL qb

And to that I'll simply say to put on the game tape on of Super Bowl XLIII and fast forward to about three minutes to go in the game. Game managers don't drive 88 yards in two minutes to win the Super Bowl. While he no doubt benefits from having had a great defense nearly his entire career, I've watched on more than one occasion as he bailed them out. The game against the Packers in 2009 immediately comes to mind. When I see a completion percentage and YPA where they're at (both elite, and both good indicators of quarterback play), I'm sorry, I don't see a game manager.

[yachties23]

I absolutely agree with you 100 percent.

Ben is not a game manager. The first superbowl win over the seahawks, he was more a hindrence than help, in fact the refs were more helpful to the steelers that day. But in the second superbowl, he proved that he is a top notch qb.

One of my friends always asks me if you could have a quarterback for:
1 play
1 game
1 season
who would they be?

1 Play is Ben. he has the ability to extend plays, and take broken plays and turn them into huge gains.
1 Game, used to be Brady, could be Eli, its a toss up.. I think both guys give their teams chances to win every week.
1 Season Right now its between Rodgers and Brees. I mean Rodgers is on fire, but how could you possibly keep Brees out of that argument.


Anyways, I agree, Ben is easily in the top 10 QBs in the league. In his early years he had the benefit of having a stud D, and great running game. But look at the Steelers now. They are definitely a pass first team, and most of that falls on Ben.

Originally Posted by Stephen

And to that I'll simply say to put on the game tape on of Super Bowl XLIII and fast forward to about three minutes to go in the game. Game managers don't drive 88 yards in two minutes to win the Super Bowl. While he no doubt benefits from having had a great defense nearly his entire career, I've watched on more than one occasion as he bailed them out. The game against the Packers in 2009 immediately comes to mind. When I see a completion percentage and YPA where they're at (both elite, and both good indicators of quarterback play), I'm sorry, I don't see a game manager.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Stephen

The fact that you list two rookie quarterbacks (and Tebow jokingly) that have done jack squat in this league tells me all I need to know. Probably best to save that two cents to put towards buying yourself a clue.

There are 14 QB's on the list, take out the two rookies and Tebow and there are still 11 in front, remove the two on IR and then he falls in at #10.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'd say people have a hard time separating Ben Roethlisberger the NFL quarterback from Ben Roethlisberger the human being.

I'd say people have a tough time separating the hype and how much of a 'tough guy' he is, from his skill as a QB vs. managing games. Hell, Tebow wins games, Sanchez wins games, come thru in the clutch, but I am sure that you won't concede that either of them are better or even equivalent QB's in your eyes. That and Steeler fandom probably vaults him ahead of a few guys too.

Originally Posted by Stephen

And to that I'll simply say to put on the game tape on of Super Bowl XLIII and fast forward to about three minutes to go in the game. Game managers don't drive 88 yards in two minutes to win the Super Bowl. While he no doubt benefits from having had a great defense nearly his entire career, I've watched on more than one occasion as he bailed them out. The game against the Packers in 2009 immediately comes to mind. When I see a completion percentage and YPA where they're at (both elite, and both good indicators of quarterback play), I'm sorry, I don't see a game manager.

If you really believe pointing to one or two games across the span of his career means he's not a game manager, I can't help you.

And I'm not even saying he wasn't being a game manager in those two games anyway.

Bottom line, like I said, you'll never find anybody talking about him making graeat throws, or how he won a game for the team.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Brady
Manning
Rodgers
Ryan
Rivers
Flacco
Dalton
Newton
Stafford
Brees
Romo
Tebow

Not playing, but still better:
Schaub
Manning

Ben is ranked 6th in the NFL. Flacco is ranked 21st. Ben had a 126 passer rating last week with a broken thumb and took the game with a grade 2 high ankle sprain.
We all have our opinions, but you gotta give the raper his due.
I've never considered him an elite QB, but his arm and game head has come along leaps and bounds over the last four years. And he wins. He plays hurt and takes games away.
Rivers sits down if he gets a bruise. He's set himself down a number of times over the years.
Thank God Tebow got a wink or I'd have you institutionalized. Lol

[yachties23]

Rivers has been hurt all season, and played with a serious knee injury in the play offs a few years back. He has also won despite having offensive weapons hurt, and the worst coach in the NFL. Of the three QBs drafted that season, hes the only one without a superbowl, but may be the most talented. I'd take any of the three, but right now, I think that Ben would need the best supporting cast.

Originally Posted by shilala

Ben is ranked 6th in the NFL. Flacco is ranked 21st. Ben had a 126 passer rating last week with a broken thumb and took the game with a grade 2 high ankle sprain.
We all have our opinions, but you gotta give the raper his due.
I've never considered him an elite QB, but his arm and game head has come along leaps and bounds over the last four years. And he wins. He plays hurt and takes games away.
Rivers sits down if he gets a bruise. He's set himself down a number of times over the years.
Thank God Tebow got a wink or I'd have you institutionalized. Lol

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Brady
Manning
Rodgers
Ryan
Rivers
Flacco
Dalton
Newton
Stafford
Brees
Romo
Tebow

Not playing, but still better:
Schaub
Manning

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

There are 14 QB's on the list, take out the two rookies and Tebow and there are still 11 in front, remove the two on IR and then he falls in at #10.

Ok, I'll try to break your list down objectively (and with a lot less venom as last time; sorry about that):

I'll gladly concede that Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees and a healthy Peyton Manning are better quarterbacks than Roethlisberger. Since you conceded that Roethlisberger is better than the two rookies (Newton/Dalton) and Tewbow, that leaves us with seven quarterbacks:

1. Eli Manning: The only other quarterback left on this list with a Super Bowl ring (let alone appearance), so we'll start with him. Ben's YPA (yards per attempt) is a full yard higher for his career than Eli's, which explains their incredibly close career passing yards (26,028 for Ben, 26,751 for Eli) in spite of Eli attempting nearly 600 more passes. Now, Eli may have more touchdown passes (181-165), but he also has more interceptions (125-97). So in short, Ben doesn't attempt as many passes as Eli, but when he does, he's much more effective (and takes better care of the ball). I'd also be remiss if I failed to mention that Manning piggy-backed his defense en route to a Super Bowl ring, and hasn't won a playoff game before or since that season.

2. Philip Rivers: In my opinion the best current starting quarterback without a ring. Career averages are similiar (Rivers: 241 YPG, 8.0 YPA, 95.8 QBR to Roethlisberger: 232 YPG, 8.1 YPA, 92.9 QBR). Rivers has a better TD/Int ratio as well. Rivers has turtled in the playoffs, however, and has zero hardware to show for having some of the most complete teams in the NFL. Similar numbers + three trips to the Super Bowl gives Roethlisberger the edge.

3. Matt Ryan: Career completion %, YPA, YPG and QBR are nowhere near Roethlisberger's. The only thing in Ryan's favor would be his TD/INT ratio. With literally no playoff success to point to, Ryan doesn't make the cut.

4. Tony Romo: Tony's always been a decent fantasy football quarterback, posting solid stats. The nice thing about having him is that you don't have to worry about him disappearing in the playoffs, if he can manage to get there. Did I mention he's also two years older than Roethlisberger?

5. Joe Flacco: There's nothing that shows in the stats colum (and from watching both of them) that Flacco is in the same league as Roethlisberger. He has neither the individual accolades or team success to compare with Roethlisberger.

6. Matt Stafford: While he's managed to stay healthy for 14 straight games and put together a nice season, I'd like to see a bit of a track record before vaulting him above Roethlisberger.

7. Matt Schaub: YPA and QBR are similar, while having a slightly better completion % and slightly worse TD/INT ratio. Never been to the playoffs, and has a career winning % below .500. Ironically enough, this is the first year the Texans will be making the playoffs, and it'll be because of their defense and running game.