NFL's new safety policy

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

Not really Stephen.

We all have our perceptions of what makes a great QB. I AM NOT a fan of game manager Qbs. Just not.

I've never, and doubt I'll ever, seen, or heard anyone say, "wow, what a great throw" when referring to Rothlisberger. To me he's just another version of Trent Dilfer or Mark Sanchez, or any one of a number of qbs who benefit from the team, particularly the defense around them. None of them are ever going to WIN a game for you, ttheyre r just asked not to lose the game for the team. to me,mthe former is what makes a great NFL qb

And to that I'll simply say to put on the game tape on of Super Bowl XLIII and fast forward to about three minutes to go in the game. Game managers don't drive 88 yards in two minutes to win the Super Bowl. While he no doubt benefits from having had a great defense nearly his entire career, I've watched on more than one occasion as he bailed them out. The game against the Packers in 2009 immediately comes to mind. When I see a completion percentage and YPA where they're at (both elite, and both good indicators of quarterback play), I'm sorry, I don't see a game manager.

[yachties23]

I absolutely agree with you 100 percent.

Ben is not a game manager. The first superbowl win over the seahawks, he was more a hindrence than help, in fact the refs were more helpful to the steelers that day. But in the second superbowl, he proved that he is a top notch qb.

One of my friends always asks me if you could have a quarterback for:
1 play
1 game
1 season
who would they be?

1 Play is Ben. he has the ability to extend plays, and take broken plays and turn them into huge gains.
1 Game, used to be Brady, could be Eli, its a toss up.. I think both guys give their teams chances to win every week.
1 Season Right now its between Rodgers and Brees. I mean Rodgers is on fire, but how could you possibly keep Brees out of that argument.


Anyways, I agree, Ben is easily in the top 10 QBs in the league. In his early years he had the benefit of having a stud D, and great running game. But look at the Steelers now. They are definitely a pass first team, and most of that falls on Ben.

Originally Posted by Stephen

And to that I'll simply say to put on the game tape on of Super Bowl XLIII and fast forward to about three minutes to go in the game. Game managers don't drive 88 yards in two minutes to win the Super Bowl. While he no doubt benefits from having had a great defense nearly his entire career, I've watched on more than one occasion as he bailed them out. The game against the Packers in 2009 immediately comes to mind. When I see a completion percentage and YPA where they're at (both elite, and both good indicators of quarterback play), I'm sorry, I don't see a game manager.

Originally Posted by Stephen

And to that I'll simply say to put on the game tape on of Super Bowl XLIII and fast forward to about three minutes to go in the game. Game managers don't drive 88 yards in two minutes to win the Super Bowl. While he no doubt benefits from having had a great defense nearly his entire career, I've watched on more than one occasion as he bailed them out. The game against the Packers in 2009 immediately comes to mind. When I see a completion percentage and YPA where they're at (both elite, and both good indicators of quarterback play), I'm sorry, I don't see a game manager.

If you really believe pointing to one or two games across the span of his career means he's not a game manager, I can't help you.

And I'm not even saying he wasn't being a game manager in those two games anyway.

Bottom line, like I said, you'll never find anybody talking about him making graeat throws, or how he won a game for the team.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

If you really believe pointing to one or two games across the span of his career means he's not a game manager, I can't help you.

And if you really think that there's only one or two games to point to, then I can't help you.

Originally Posted by Resipsa

Bottom line, like I said, you'll never find anybody talking about him making graeat throws, or how he won a game for the team.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

Bottom line, like I said, you'll never find anybody talking about him making graeat throws, or how he won a game for the team.

Vic, Ben has become such an incredibly efficient quarterback in the air over the last four years that a team who has been a running juggernaut forever has completely abandoned that style of play and turned into a passing offense.
That's something I never thought I'd see in my entire life. Something I never even wanted to see, but it's worked fabulously.
Since committing to the passing game these last four years, the team is 43-21, has been in the playoffs 3 times, the Super Bowl twice, and took a ring.

In 2005 when they won Super Bowl XL the team was 5th in the league in rushing yards, 24th in passing yards. A running team.
They started transtioning in '06-'07 and suffered the growing pains because of it.
By 2008 when they won Super Bowl XLIII they had moved to 17th in the league in passing and 23rd in rushing.
This year they are 8th in passing, 17th in rushing.
See the trend?

I figure you were being tongue in cheek when you said no one ooo's and aaaaaahhh's at Ben's arm, or he hasn't won games with his arm. He's literally been a highlight reel all season, even during these past weeks while his thumb has been broken, his efficiency is through the roof (I think he had a 126.0 passer rating last week.)

Originally Posted by shilala

Vic, Ben has become such an incredibly efficient quarterback in the air over the last four years that a team who has been a running juggernaut forever has completely abandoned that style of play and turned into a passing offense.
That's something I never thought I'd see in my entire life. Something I never even wanted to see, but it's worked fabulously.
Since committing to the passing game these last four years, the team is 43-21, has been in the playoffs 3 times, the Super Bowl twice, and took a ring.

In 2005 when they won Super Bowl XL the team was 5th in the league in rushing yards, 24th in passing yards. A running team.
They started transtioning in '06-'07 and suffered the growing pains because of it.
By 2008 when they won Super Bowl XLIII they had moved to 17th in the league in passing and 23rd in rushing.
This year they are 8th in passing, 17th in rushing.
See the trend?

I figure you were being tongue in cheek when you said no one ooo's and aaaaaahhh's at Ben's arm, or he hasn't won games with his arm. He's literally been a highlight reel all season, even during these past weeks while his thumb has been broken, his efficiency is through the roof (I think he had a 126.0 passer rating last week.)

You were saying Scott? were you finished? Well, allow me to retort (said in my best Samuel Jackson voice):



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=311219025

Look, I get some of you guys drink the Big Ben Kool aid. I don't. I watch the guy play and I see a second tier Qb that NOBODY would talk about if he played for the Arizona Cardinals.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

You were saying Scott? were you finished? Well, allow me to retort (said in my best Samuel Jackson voice):



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=311219025

I'll see your poor outing on the road against one of the best teams in the NFC in a game in which most quarterbacks wouldn't have bothered suiting up and raise you this, this, this or this. Point is, every quarterback has a turd from time to time. It happens.

Originally Posted by Resipsa

Look, I get some of you guys drink the Big Ben Kool aid. I don't. I watch the guy play and I see a second tier Qb that NOBODY would talk about if he played for the Arizona Cardinals.

I have no dog in this fight whatsoever. My question to you is, if he's such a second tier quarterback, why do his splits stack up against the most elite quarterbacks in the NFL today? How have the Steelers made it to three Super Bowls (winning two) with a second tier quarterback? They don't make it through the playoffs in 2005 without Roethlisberger (regardless of how he played once they got there), they don't beat Arizona in the Super Bowl without that final drive (unless you don't remember Warner going up and down the field on that Steelers defense in the 2nd half) and they don't even get past Baltimore this past season in the Divional game after their defense put them in a 14 point halftime hole. Sorry Resipsa, I don't know how many examples you need to see of a guy putting a team on his back before you concede that he's asked (and expected) to do much, much more than, "not lose the game."

[Mikey202]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'll see your poor outing on the road against one of the best teams in the NFC in a game in which most quarterbacks wouldn't have bothered suiting up and raise you this, this, this or this. Point is, every quarterback has a turd from time to time. It happens.

I have no dog in this fight whatsoever. My question to you is, if he's such a second tier quarterback, why do his splits stack up against the most elite quarterbacks in the NFL today? How have the Steelers made it to three Super Bowls (winning two) with a second tier quarterback? They don't make it through the playoffs in 2005 without Roethlisberger (regardless of how he played once they got there), they don't beat Arizona in the Super Bowl without that final drive (unless you don't remember Warner going up and down the field on that Steelers defense in the 2nd half) and they don't even get past Baltimore this past season in the Divional game after their defense put them in a 14 point halftime hole. Sorry Resipsa, I don't know how many examples you need to see of a guy putting a team on his back before you concede that he's asked (and expected) to do much, much more than, "not lose the game."

There was this one time, when Steelers played the Colts in the AFC Championship, and Ben stopped the winning TD after the Bettis fumble.
That is why there is so much Hater-aid, from Vic.

Originally Posted by Mikey202

There was this one time, when Steelers played the Colts in the AFC Championship, and Ben stopped the winning TD after the Bettis fumble.
That is why there is so much Hater-aid, from Vic.

Either that or I really don't think he's a good QB.

OR I hate rapists. Either or.

Take your pick.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Mikey202

There was this one time, when Steelers played the Colts in the AFC Championship, and Ben stopped the winning TD after the Bettis fumble.
That is why there is so much Hater-aid, from Vic.

So he's a Colts fan? Man, then he really doesn't want to talk about quarterbacks piggy-backing their way to a Super Bowl ring then does he...

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

You were saying Scott? were you finished? Well, allow me to retort (said in my best Samuel Jackson voice):



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=311219025

I definately 'd on that Sam reference, Thanks Vic.

It was obvious Ben couldn't get downfield consistantly with a broken thumb and ankle after the first eight minutes. (Despite 25/44 and 330 yards in the air, all the niners had to do is keep an extra man in and amp up the pressure to stop him.)
Charlie Batch took all the snaps this week and guys were open all night.
So rather than let Ben take another couple weeks to carry us through the playoffs, the brass sends him out to lose face, lose the game, lose homefield advantage via the Christmas present the Ravens just gave us, etc.
Ben's mobility, which is the one thing everyone points out as his greatest asset, wasn't there. So that somehow makes it sensible to put him out there, injure him further, and ignore a bench qb who's better prepared for the week.
In short, what? :R

Originally Posted by Resipsa

Look, I get some of you guys drink the Big Ben Kool aid. I don't. I watch the guy play and I see a second tier Qb that NOBODY would talk about if he played for the Arizona Cardinals.

I get what you're saying, completely. If we're going to be a passing club with little respect to a running game, I'd rather see another qb in there.
Nobody would be talking about Tom Brady if he played for the Cleveland Browns, though.
I might even agree that Ben would not likely fair well in any other schemes that weren't tailor made to suit his ability, but there's more to that story. Our O-line is patched together, has been for years. Ben is forever molested. His size and strength allow the Steelers to use money in on Defense and save money by not having a left guard, which is a very costly position. We get our guards from couches because we have a whole core of drafted hopefuls that are hurt. (They should pay off next year, hopefully.) So Ben saves money on our whole offensive line. That's money that's spent on receivers and defense. It makes sense and it works.
Fact is, Ben is bought and paid for, has earned the spot, has the rings, has the numbers, and consistantly wins.
It'd be almost as retarded to fix that as it was to hobble him out on the field last night.

[Mikey202]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

Bottom line, like I said, you'll never find anybody talking about him making graeat throws, or how he won a game for the team.

Dude, he is no Peyton Manning, but he does make great throws. Who is throwing to Wallace?