Saints accused of "Bounty Program". Thoughts?

[shilala]

I'm with you on what sports used to be and what they are now. I miss Tom Landry, bad.
I carried the purist torch for years and finally just gave up. I've been a die-hard Steelers fan nearly all my life and I'm at the point with them that I'd just as soon root for the Browns. It just ain't like it used to be, and it's sad.
You're right about the way it plays all across the board. That's a shame, too.
I even agree that a "bounty" system is ridiculous. In days past, men played for pride, their team and their coach. That's just plain gone. The last of the old-time coaches exists in Tom Coughlin, I'm thrilled he took the ring this year.
Hopefully some teams will take a look at what he does and why it's successful, and we'll head back to some of the values that made professional sports flourish.

[BHalbrooks]

Originally Posted by Stephen

So fans of other teams busting chops? No offense, but whoopity damn doo. I still hear about Favre and his vicodin addiction, and his flashing his wee-wee, etc., and those things are completely irrelevant to the Packers (and have been for some time).

Their playoff record disagrees with you, and what gives a lot of fuel to the fire as to how big of an impact it made in the Patriots winning three Super Bowls.

Ok. Except the team that won the Super Bowl in 2007 won it again this year.

Grossly circumvented the salary cap which directly led them to being able to put together that team that won back-to-back Super Bowls in the late 90's. If I remember correctly they were fined alomst a million dollars and forfeited a couple of draft picks.

I didn't know that about the Bronco's. Hm.
I wasn't saying it as, "Oh poor us". I was saying it as in, "Yea, people still bring it up and it's annoying..."
Yea yea yea. F the Giants.

Originally Posted by E.J.

You need to read what you are linking.... He said it was a clean hit, no malicious intent, Brady just happened to get hurt. In a nutshell....

You don't care? So you make strong statements, refuting previous comments, but really don't care if they are true or to back them up.....

I again ask you to find me something that says that Mr. Pollard or any other NFL play states that they are going out trying to blow up knees, ankles, ruin careers/seasons. Guys lose a season to a knee regularly, but I cannot think of a hit on a season ending play that I thought was overtly malicious or dirty.


...and just to be clear, to be okay with doing your job and having someone get a season ending injury, doesn't mean that you went out to intentionally injure/maim. It doesn't mean that you are okay with dirty plays that result in season ending injuries. It doesn't mean that you are going out trying to end guys seasons/careers.

A player can be fine with the result of a clean hit, even if it ends with an injury. Hell, these guys will be living with a lot of regret if they have to worry about every time someone gets hurt. One more time....

My statement -



Your response, quoting my post -

I understand what I said, thank you for quoting it....
I also said that I didn't care to, because I don't need to prove anything to you... I heard the interview, you look it up if you want to believe it. Believe it or not, I don't give a damn. Being "proud" of that hit is a pretty stupid comment to make, which is why I linked it.

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by BHalbrooks

I understand what I said, thank you for quoting it....
I also said that I didn't care to, because I don't need to prove anything to you... I heard the interview, you look it up if you want to believe it. Believe it or not, I don't give a damn. Being "proud" of that hit is a pretty stupid comment to make, which is why I linked it.

Exactly what I thought... Thanks for playing........

[BHalbrooks]

Your ignorance astounds me.

[drob]

Originally Posted by goomer

There were some hit that we're definately illegal. He was hit a few times way after the whistle was blown. The refs excuse after was the crowd noise was so loud they didn't know if the defensive player could hear the whistle. Since when did that matter? The saints are a dirty team. The refs let them get away with it for that playoff season.

These are statements without proof. Prove it!

[yourchoice]

Wow, the league came down HARD. Deserved, IMHO.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/77...-year-bounties

[Gophernut]

That's a beefy penalty. Williams suspended indefinitely, Payton suspended for the season, GM gone for 8 games and out 500K Saint fined 500K and lose the 2nd round pick the next two years! That's very stiff. It will be appealed I would imagine.

[smitty81]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

It all has to do with intent. The object of hockey is not to harm anyone, it is to score more points than your opponent. The object of boxing, like all such sports, is to likewise score more points than the opponent. If the intent is to cause physical harm, then that is a felony. One can't even say that they gave consent to be harmed, because a person cannot legally give that consent. Injuries incidental to a particular sport are accidents, but when someone is targeted for harm...well, what would you call it?

What about the MMA?
Please explain that one.

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by smitty81

What about the MMA?
Please explain that one.

Found this on Wiki:

...The more dangerous Vale Tudo style bouts of the early UFCs were made safer with the implementation of additional rules, leading to the popular regulated form of MMA seen today. Originally promoted as a competition with the intention of finding the most effective martial arts for real unarmed combat situations, competitors were pitted against one another with minimal rules. Later, fighters employed multiple martial arts into their style while promoters adopted additional rules aimed at increasing safety for competitors and to promote mainstream acceptance of the sport.

[OLS]

I think I will use the ignore function on some people for the first time ever.
WAIT...where the hell is it?

[smitty81]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

Found this on Wiki:

...The more dangerous Vale Tudo style bouts of the early UFCs were made safer with the implementation of additional rules, leading to the popular regulated form of MMA seen today. Originally promoted as a competition with the intention of finding the most effective martial arts for real unarmed combat situations, competitors were pitted against one another with minimal rules. Later, fighters employed multiple martial arts into their style while promoters adopted additional rules aimed at increasing safety for competitors and to promote mainstream acceptance of the sport.

So your telling me that when the kick them in the head and knock them out, or throw them down and continue to punch them in their face till they are unconsious or bend their limbs untill they either break or give up.

Your telling me they arnt just beating the **** out of eachother?

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by smitty81

So your telling me that when the kick them in the head and knock them out, or throw them down and continue to punch them in their face till they are unconscious or bend their limbs until they either break or give up.

Your telling me they aren't just beating the **** out of each other?

If that's what they're doing, then it isn't a sport, it's this:

[pektel]

I think it was a fair punishment. Hell, fine them MORE. They should have to pay inflated stadium prices for everything.

I don't agree with the observation that it should be accepted just because that's the way it is. That's like saying not to arrest drug dealers, because there will always be heroin on the streets.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

Found this on Wiki:

...The more dangerous Vale Tudo style bouts of the early UFCs were made safer with the implementation of additional rules, leading to the popular regulated form of MMA seen today. Originally promoted as a competition with the intention of finding the most effective martial arts for real unarmed combat situations, competitors were pitted against one another with minimal rules. Later, fighters employed multiple martial arts into their style while promoters adopted additional rules aimed at increasing safety for competitors and to promote mainstream acceptance of the sport.

I will never, and I mean NEVER forget the Keith Hackney and Joe Son fight.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by pektel

I think it was a fair punishment. Hell, fine them MORE. They should have to pay inflated stadium prices for everything.

I don't agree with the observation that it should be accepted just because that's the way it is. That's like saying not to arrest drug dealers, because there will always be heroin on the streets.

Feel free to show me all the fines for illegal hits Saints players incurred over the past three seasons. While you're at it, please list the players who were injured for any period of time as a direct result from a hit or hits levied by a Saints defender. Take all the time you need.

[jledou]

Wow they are sending a message ... we don't know all the details, but I would imagine they can and will appeal this to an extent. If the Saints don't then I would say the NFL has more facts then we know of right now.

[pektel]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Feel free to show me all the fines for illegal hits Saints players incurred over the past three seasons. While you're at it, please list the players who were injured for any period of time as a direct result from a hit or hits levied by a Saints defender. Take all the time you need.

I was not calling out the saints in particular. Simply stating that if they were found guilty of bounty hits, that they should be paying a fine.

Just because someone drinks and drives and gets away with it does not make it any better than the person who does the same but wrecks and kills innocent people. They are both horribly wrong for acting in the manner they did to begin with.

My argument is purely on the principle. And my apologies if I came across differently than my intention.

[Islayphile]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Feel free to show me all the fines for illegal hits Saints players incurred over the past three seasons. While you're at it, please list the players who were injured for any period of time as a direct result from a hit or hits levied by a Saints defender. Take all the time you need.

My take as well

[bobarian]

I think the main issue is being missed here. Today's punishment was levied for specific violations of NFL rules. Including disregarding a specific memo that had to be signed and returned to the league office regarding ANY performance bonuses. These are a clear violation of the salary cap. Whether anyone was injured or fined doesnt matter, the program existed and thats why punishments were given.

Individual player suspensions will be forthcoming, in addition to possible IRS investigations of tax evasion.

[yourchoice]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Feel free to show me all the fines for illegal hits Saints players incurred over the past three seasons. While you're at it, please list the players who were injured for any period of time as a direct result from a hit or hits levied by a Saints defender. Take all the time you need.

I don't believe the NFL lists their fines. We hear of them all the time, but I don't think you'll find a comprehensive list of them provided by the NFL.

Of course, that doesn't mean you can't search for them. At the risk of reading more rhetoric...
This one probably paints the Saints in the poorest light. Interesting that Williams is quoted in that article saying "If that guy doesn't want his head tore off, duck. Because that's how we're playing." Classy! Reading it now, after the league came down on him and the Saints, makes him look even more like an ass.

Here's another one you're familiar with. Bobby McCray on Favre.

I also found fines levied on other Saint players for illegal hits or unnecessary roughness. In 2010, Malcolm Jenkins and Marvin Mitchell. 2009 Jonathon Vilma. 2008 Kevin Kaesviharn.

Good enough?

Oh, just found another one. Roman Harper (again) last year.

That's all the time I needed.

Feel free to research each of the incidents I listed further to see if anyone missed any playing time. Take all the time you need.