Sam Leccia's Debut on hold

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by jesseboston81

Also, Sam's Debut line was directly matching up with, at least to some degree, Studio Tobac's NUB Plus plans: the announced Debut vitolas were 5x60, 7x60, and a 7x52 figurado.

Nub Plus?!



That's about the funniest idea I've heard since the original Nub!

"Look guys... this little chunk right here is the best part, so we're only going to give you that. Oh, and we're also going to give you all of this other part attached to it. You know, like all the other cigars have."

Which is it, Oliva? "Sweet spot" or not?

[gnukfu]

If the issue is a non-compete agreement/contract generally you have to show that there is a likelihood of irreparable harm/injury if the preliminary injunction is not granted.

If the case makes it to trial the judge reviews the agreement using a test typically developed under the case law of that state (common law). There are a number of factors that are considered. Geographic scope, length of time, norms within the industry, and public policy are some factors that are considered. It varies from state to state depending on how the case law developed within that state.

[LasciviousXXX]

The biggest positive I can see for Mr. Leccia is that the non-compete covenant could be considered unenforceable if the duration is ruled to be unreasonable or overly broad. And let's face it, 5 years as well as restrictions on a national level could be deemed an unreasonable restriction on Mr. Leccia's ability to earn a living. Logically, I could see the judge scraping the non-compete clause in this case.

[jesseboston81]

Originally Posted by LasciviousXXX

The biggest positive I can see for Mr. Leccia is that the non-compete covenant could be considered unenforceable if the duration is ruled to be unreasonable or overly broad. And let's face it, 5 years as well as restrictions on a national level could be deemed an unreasonable restriction on Mr. Leccia's ability to earn a living. Logically, I could see the judge scraping the non-compete clause in this case.

On a related issue, and this goes back to what George was saying about state common law, if this goes to trial and the five year duration is deemed too long, then it will come down to whether Florida's common law strikes the clause completely or whether it rewrites it to be enforceable. However, as with most cases, Sam and Oliva will likely reach an agreement and this won't ever make it to trial anyways.

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by LasciviousXXX

The biggest positive I can see for Mr. Leccia is that the non-compete covenant could be considered unenforceable if the duration is ruled to be unreasonable or overly broad. And let's face it, 5 years as well as restrictions on a national level could be deemed an unreasonable restriction on Mr. Leccia's ability to earn a living. Logically, I could see the judge scraping the non-compete clause in this case.

Non-compete is ALWAYS signed by BOTH parties. Since Leccia had no beef with the duration of the clause when he WILLINGLY signed it I can't imagine a judge now vacating it. If he signed the agreement in bad faith, as now it seems, then he should not be complaining. Besides, if there is a 5 year non-compete he DEFINITELY got a serious chunk of money up front, thus his ability "to make a living" is a dubious claim. Look up sales of Williams-Selyem and Kosta Brown wineries, just a couple of very visible examples, much longer non-compete clauses (10 years) and all enforceable without sellers claiming "duress".

[loki]

Originally Posted by Don Fernando

no

maybe?

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by loki

maybe?

No.

[LasciviousXXX]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Non-compete is ALWAYS signed by BOTH parties. Since Leccia had no beef with the duration of the clause when he WILLINGLY signed it I can't imagine a judge now vacating it. If he signed the agreement in bad faith, as now it seems, then he should not be complaining. Besides, if there is a 5 year non-compete he DEFINITELY got a serious chunk of money up front, thus his ability "to make a living" is a dubious claim. Look up sales of Williams-Selyem and Kosta Brown wineries, just a couple of very visible examples, much longer non-compete clauses (10 years) and all enforceable without sellers claiming "duress".

There are many cases of non-compete covenants being deemed unenforceable because of the unreasonable duration even though both parties signed the agreement. Most revolve around the issue of whether it unreasonably restricts the persons ability to make living. Many factors obviously come into focus on these types of cases, such as the range and scope of the restrictions, the type of work itself and whether a new venture would have a negative effect on the company if trade secrets were utilized. This is just to name a few. Not every NCC or CNC is open and shut simply for the fact that both parties signed the agreement. And seeing as how each one is different, the duration also doesn't definitely mean Leccia got a "chunk of money" up front.

[loki]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

No.

definitely, i've been reading more than a few "i'll never buy another oliva cigar ever" posts. now is that internet dick swinging, maybe, but i'm sure that more than a few actually mean it. before this oliva was just another small cigar maker now, to some, they're the big bad corporation trying to stop a man from earning a living. There will be blowback from this and it's silly to think there won't be

Crazy stuff! I am curious as to how this is going to play out.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by loki

definitely, i've been reading more than a few "i'll never buy another oliva cigar ever" posts. now is that internet dick swinging, maybe, but i'm sure that more than a few actually mean it. before this oliva was just another small cigar maker now, to some, they're the big bad corporation trying to stop a man from earning a living. There will be blowback from this and it's silly to think there won't be

Oliva isn't getting any less popular, they aren't turning out worse product and they certainly aren't on the decline. Will some people undoubtedly stay away from them over this? Maybe, but I doubt that the allegiance to Sam runs that deep. Would there be such an uproar if a sales rep for Oliva had left under bad terms and was trying to go to a different company?

If Sam has to take 5 years off, I have a feeling many will forget who he even is. He was never his own brand, but rather the face of Oliva's lines. Their marketing department chose wisely when they picked the 'rockstar' look and started the NUB Live tour (which was copied by other companies).

Will he see success from his 'own' brand (to be marketed by Torano)? That is yet to be seen, but undoubtedly he wants to capitalize on the momentum created for him by Oliva and the longer he has to wait the tougher it may be.

Again, if the split from Oliva had been amicable we might not be even discussing this. Something must have occured on one side or the other that the relationship between company and (ex-)employee must have been strained when he left/was asked to leave.

[loki]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Oliva isn't getting any less popular, they aren't turning out worse product and they certainly aren't on the decline. Will some people undoubtedly stay away from them over this? Maybe, but I doubt that the allegiance to Sam runs that deep. Would there be such an uproar if a sales rep for Oliva had left under bad terms and was trying to go to a different company?

If Sam has to take 5 years off, I have a feeling many will forget who he even is. He was never his own brand, but rather the face of Oliva's lines. Their marketing department chose wisely when they picked the 'rockstar' look and started the NUB Live tour (which was copied by other companies).

Will he see success from his 'own' brand (to be marketed by Torano)? That is yet to be seen, but undoubtedly he wants to capitalize on the momentum created for him by Oliva and the longer he has to wait the tougher it may be.

Again, if the split from Oliva had been amicable we might not be even discussing this. Something must have occured on one side or the other that the relationship between company and (ex-)employee must have been strained when he left/was asked to leave.

good, then we agree

[MarkinAZ]

Originally Posted by loki

definitely, i've been reading more than a few "i'll never buy another oliva cigar ever" posts. now is that internet dick swinging, maybe, but i'm sure that more than a few actually mean it. before this oliva was just another small cigar maker now, to some, they're the big bad corporation trying to stop a man from earning a living. There will be blowback from this and it's silly to think there won't be

I just wanted to make sure I didn't misread your post here Loki, but are you indicating that the Oliva Cigar Company is a small cigar maker?

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by loki

good, then we agree

I concur that some MAY stay away, but not nearly enough people to negatively effect Oliva in the short or long-term.

[guado]

Originally Posted by Don Fernando

Although I understand the lawsuit and with the information I have Oliva is right to sue Sam, I think the timing is aweful and will not only hurt Sam but also Oliva as they are 'the bad guys' now in a lot of comments I read online.

A lot of those are nut swingers that thought sam was their friend. Sam hated being at shows hated being away from his family...and IMO smoked way to much pot.

People are delusional if they they Samn TRULY created nub and cain. He NEVER blended his OWN cigars. He just carried around blanks and wrapped cigars at events.

Did you ever try talking tobacco with him? LOL


I hope this is approved by the courts. All these "I will never smoke another oliva and wait it out for sam" people will forget about him in two years. I really hope Oliva puts out the TRUTH behind all this. I would LOVE to really hear/read what happened.


We all see the negative about this but in actuallity what percetage of cigar smokers are we online from the masses. People really think them not buying two oliva cigars at a show is gonna hurt Oliva. They make an awesome product and continue to innovate which is where a lot of brands are lacking.

Oh well...ending my rant. I think Sam's a douche. He knew what he signed...he has a bunch of twitter followers and facebook fans...so thats all that matters...lol.

I just feel bad for anyone who invested money in him...they should have known better.

[NCRadioMan]

The people on cigar boards are a very, very tiny percentage of cigar smokers. If you ask most smokers who are not on cigars boards who Sam is, they have no clue. Same could be said of Pete Johnson. And, they don't care. To think this will effect anyone's bottom line is silly.

Besides, people say alot things on these boards that are total bs and they like to posture to make themselves look important in their own mind.

Also, a company that produces over 13 million cigars a year is not a small cigar maker.

For me, if Sam would have come up with good blends in non-clown cigar sizes, I might have cared about this.

[Ranger_B]

Call me old fashioned but if you sign a contract that is your word. I hold no ill will for someone trying to make a living but if you said you would not compete for 5 years than you wait 5 years. Without knowing what the agreement is I would not hold anything against Oliva or Sam. Never liked the nubs anyway. Now the V and the new cain daytona thats a different story.

[loki]

Originally Posted by MarkinCA

I just wanted to make sure I didn't misread your post here Loki, but are you indicating that the Oliva Cigar Company is a small cigar maker?

that is exactly what i'm saying

[Don Fernando]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Nub Plus?!



That's about the funniest idea I've heard since the original Nub!

"Look guys... this little chunk right here is the best part, so we're only going to give you that. Oh, and we're also going to give you all of this other part attached to it. You know, like all the other cigars have."

Which is it, Oliva? "Sweet spot" or not?

they exist, check http://www.cigar.com/cigars/viewcigar.asp?brand=997

[Brutus2600]

Originally Posted by loki

definitely, i've been reading more than a few "i'll never buy another oliva cigar ever" posts. now is that internet dick swinging, maybe, but i'm sure that more than a few actually mean it. before this oliva was just another small cigar maker now, to some, they're the big bad corporation trying to stop a man from earning a living. There will be blowback from this and it's silly to think there won't be

In which case those people are ridiculous...Oliva makes a great product and honestly they're just missing out if they want to boycott Oliva products. It won't hurt Oliva's bottom line. I'm betting the majority of cigar smokers don't even know about this whole debacle.

Originally Posted by guado

A lot of those are nut swingers that thought sam was their friend. Sam hated being at shows hated being away from his family...and IMO smoked way to much pot.

People are delusional if they they Samn TRULY created nub and cain. He NEVER blended his OWN cigars. He just carried around blanks and wrapped cigars at events.

Did you ever try talking tobacco with him? LOL


I hope this is approved by the courts. All these "I will never smoke another oliva and wait it out for sam" people will forget about him in two years. I really hope Oliva puts out the TRUTH behind all this. I would LOVE to really hear/read what happened.


We all see the negative about this but in actuallity what percetage of cigar smokers are we online from the masses. People really think them not buying two oliva cigars at a show is gonna hurt Oliva. They make an awesome product and continue to innovate which is where a lot of brands are lacking.

Oh well...ending my rant. I think Sam's a douche. He knew what he signed...he has a bunch of twitter followers and facebook fans...so thats all that matters...lol.

I just feel bad for anyone who invested money in him...they should have known better.

The more the curtain is ripped away the more you realize it's just a silly old man pretending to be the great and powerful Wizard of Oz