real or psychosematic

[akumushi]

I'm with the nose smokers on this one. If you break it down between 'flavor' (mouth-feel) and 'aroma' (scent in nose) I find that NCs have almost no aroma besides pepper in the nose, and it is usually too strong for me to snork. I will admit that Nicaraguan smokes have a chewier, more sastifying mouth-feel, so more 'flavor' than CCs, and more frequently have flavors in the chocolatey, coffee range, along with that extra pepper. Honduran and Dominican smokes are simply not my cup of tea. Nicaraguan cigars have a great flavor profile that is unique and worth having every once in a while for a change for me, but the lack of complexity in the nose makes them too boring for me to smoke often. The aromas that CCs have that I seldom find in CCs are mostly in the floral, citrus and woodsy ranges. I have never had an NC that was anywhere near as 'aromatic' as the cheapest MM CCs I've had, but YMMV. I agree that young cubans generally have more tanins than NCs as well, which is one of the reasons most CCs need a couple of years to really shine.

[shilala]

I'm going to say 1a.)More or less, so to speak. 1b.) To some extent, yes. At least I can't think of a cc that lacks it, except maybe RS12's. 1c.) I don't consider it a "smoothness at all. Just a weak "rosey sweeteness" that gets overpowering in some cigars, is very faint in others.

For part 2, I have to go with your ribeye hypothesis. Sometimes I love a Los Statos or La Corona. Sometimes a Cohiba cigarette (which very much brings that hay sweetness to the forefront). It all depends what I'm in the mood for, and how I want it delivered, and at what "speed".
I seldom have a desire for that distincy cc flavor, as I enjoy more body, fullness and in the faceness that different nc's impart.

"Good" or "better" is wholly subjective. That's why it's an argument that goes on forever and can never be won. It makes for interesting conversation, or downright disdain, depending on the parties involved.

Sometimes I really get a hankering for a crappy cc, sometimes I get a hankering for a "good" one, but mostly I enjoy the package a Nic puro brings along, or a Dominican puro. I don't feel any are necessarily "better" than the others, but more that different profiles fill different temporary desires.
Kinda like women.

[Snake Hips]

I'm going to go with some others here and echo Tom about the nose smoking. The "smoothness" of the Cubans you hear described I think applies to this; I've encountered nary a non-Cuban that I can blow the whole puff out my nose without serious tear production. I can do that with Cubans very easily (though I don't prefer it).

1a) There is indeed one distinctive flavor characteristic I find in Cuban cigars. The flavor of it I can't describe at all, and it's not necessarily good or bad, it's just there. I happen to like it. And besides that flavor, I also find that the profiles of the Cuban marques are each unique to anything found in the non-Cuban world.
1b) I have not found it present in ALL Cuban cigars, but it varies depending on the individual cigar. Sometimes a Cuban I'm smoking is crap, or isn't distinctive, or is boring or whatever, and I don't find it. Sometime a Cuban I'm smoking is very good, but it's a total departure from anything else I've smoked off the island; often the case is that some flavor characteristic is dominant ("young and unbalanced," some would say) and I can't find the "twang" through it.
1c) The "smooth" characteristic, as I described above, is more in relation to the nose smoking. French inhaling and snorking are both much more pleasant with Cubans to me. "Smooth" in general is not monopolized by Cuban tobacco - I smoke many, many non-Cubans that are smooth as a lacquered n' waxed baby's ass on the palate (Padron 1964 and 1926 in particular), but through the nose I can only do a small amount before it melts my sinuses.

2) The difference, as I describe, is not that significant that Cubans are so much better. I believe it's personal taste. To my taste, the unique flavors of each brand are something to seek out, something I like. But there are tastes in the non-Cuban world that are not found in the Cuban world, and I look for those on occasion as well. The Nicaraguan sweet-spice and the butter-cream taste of some others are something I love to have in my regular rotation.

1a) In your experience, is there one distinctive flavor/aroma characteristic that is solely found in Cuban cigars?
1b) Have you found it present in ALL Cuban cigars?
1c) If you have found them so, describe the "smooth" characteristic that is present (according to your experience) in Cubans -vs- Non.

I wouldn't say that there is a flavor consistent to ALL CCs, but certianly the characteristic is the smoothness. I'd classify the smoothness that even the heaviest CCs I can nose about half a pull, but most times I can nose the whole thing. With an NC even the lite ones, nosing them is a bit like sticking a live wire in ones nasal cavity, its almost harsh enough to bring tears to the eyes.

I'd also say that a lot NCs get credit for "flavor" where all I get out of them is "strength". But thats just my take.

2) Is the difference (as may have been noted in question 1) that significant, that Cubans are so much better?

For my tastes pretty much yes. There are some CCs I don't smoke but the ones I really like I prefer greatly to NCs. But I'm also the type of guy who can make 10 lbs of lasagna and then eat it for 2 weeks. So its perfect to me to own like 175 Cohiba Lanceros and smoke those heavily. Its just my make up.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Addiction

1a) In your experience, is there one distinctive flavor/aroma characteristic that is solely found in Cuban cigars?
1b) Have you found it present in ALL Cuban cigars?
1c) If you have found them so, describe the "smooth" characteristic that is present (according to your experience) in Cubans -vs- Non.

I wouldn't say that there is a flavor consistent to ALL CCs, but certianly the characteristic is the smoothness. I'd classify the smoothness that even the heaviest CCs I can nose about half a pull, but most times I can nose the whole thing. With an NC even the lite ones, nosing them is a bit like sticking a live wire in ones nasal cavity, its almost harsh enough to bring tears to the eyes.

I'd also say that a lot NCs get credit for "flavor" where all I get out of them is "strength". But thats just my take.

2) Is the difference (as may have been noted in question 1) that significant, that Cubans are so much better?

For my tastes pretty much yes. There are some CCs I don't smoke but the ones I really like I prefer greatly to NCs. But I'm also the type of guy who can make 10 lbs of lasagna and then eat it for 2 weeks. So its perfect to me to own like 175 Cohiba Lanceros and smoke those heavily. Its just my make up.

That's good stuff, Brian.
I'm just exactly the polar opposite of you. I almost never eat leftovers, I like my cigars to burn a hole right through my sinus cavity to my brain, and I seldom smoke the same cigar twice in a month (or more).
I don't think I'd ever smoke a Cohiba lancero, and I'm sure I'll never seek one out.
Goes to show how different we all are. It's awesome. Thank God there's a bazillion different cigars out there.

[G G]

I haven't smoked enough CCs to form an opinion, but the one's I have had haven't knocked me out with greatness either. I tend to like stronger maduros though (prolly for the same reasons Scott does) but am discovering others that I like too. I have enjoyed reading the thread though, very informative.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by ggainey

I haven't smoked enough CCs to form an opinion, but the one's I have had haven't knocked me out with greatness either. I tend to like stronger maduros though (prolly for the same reasons Scott does) but am discovering others that I like too. I have enjoyed reading the thread though, very informative.

I think we kind of gyped ourselves, Greg. I don't levitate to cc's mainly cause they're too mild and all I get is dirty smoke. Kinda like smoking cigarettes. Some are full and flavorful, but not many. Cohiba maduros are full, but very light. RS11's are very full and have a bit of a whallop. Cuaba's are full of everything, and I enjoy them as much as my NC's. They start smooth, build and blow your doors off with spice.
Aside from that, it's all just dirty air to me.
I don't blame that on the cc's, I blame that on me destroying my senses with bad things over the years. I'm not complaining, it was fun, but it kind of wrecked my opportunity to experience cc's the way other guys can enjoy them.

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by shilala

I don't blame that on the cc's, I blame that on me destroying my senses with bad things over the years. I'm not complaining, it was fun, but it kind of wrecked my opportunity to experience cc's the way other guys can enjoy them.

I don't think that's the issue. Surely there may be some cases where through physical anomalies people's sinuses are "wrecked". But taste is subjective. Just because one guy enjoys another cigar more than you do, doesn't point to something lacking on your end. It's just the nature of taste.

[mmblz]

my

there is a certain characteristic that many cubans share, which hardly any non-cubans seem to have.
i won't even attempt to describe it in words
to me it is significant because i happen to like said characteristic/flavor.
so for me i smoke mostly cubans since i know i'll really like about 90% of them, whereas i'll only really like about 5% of non-cubans.
with limited time, have to go for the best bet

[RightAJ]

The 'smoothness' of CCs some of you mention, I do notice, but I find that CCs are just generally lighter in body/flavor than NCs. I am yet to find a truely full bodied CC. Had most if not all the marcas and many sizes, but none jump out with a strong flavor or body for me. They can be very complex and flavorfull, and quite different than NCs, but the tobacco just has a lighter quality to me. The Cuban 'twang' is something I can taste in many CCs, and I quite enjoy it.

aj

PS I to think many people (not necessecirly here though) smoke CCs just to smoke CCs... this bothers me as I think they are snobs

I find NCs have a MUCH wider taste range in all regards, including tasting just like CCs. This only makes sense, since Cuba is only one place.
Therefore, if you want to find a taste you like or different tastes you like, try everything. If you settle on liking the Cuban taste you are better off with CCs, though they have their share of dogrockets.
Of course preconceptions can make an ordinary cigar taste better or worse, but they won't make a crappy cigar taste good or a great cigar taste bad.

[issues]

Loving this thread as it is very informative.

Unfortunately, I have not had enough experience with CCs to form an opinion or contribute but I will watch this thread closely as I am quite curious about them...

[shilala]

Originally Posted by issues

Loving this thread as it is very informative.

Unfortunately, I have not had enough experience with CCs to form an opinion or contribute but I will watch this thread closely as I am quite curious about them...

I'm sure that can be remedied.

[G G]

Originally Posted by shilala

I'm sure that can be remedied.

uh-oh

[issues]

Oh boy, I think I might've stepped into something...

[Razorhog]

I haven't had experience with CC's either. (only a couple but they could have been fakes). One thing I find troublesome is that people put cigars into two groups: Cubans and Non-Cubans. Of course Cubans have a distinctive flavor profile - just like any other puro does. And of course, NC's have more flavor diversity - they come from a large variety of climates/countries.
The only thing that is different is that Cubans are illegal in the United States. Well, that and the belief some folks have that Cuba is the optimal climate for growing tobacco. Just like regions of France are considered to be the optimal climate for growing grapes. Wine from California and other regions can be good too, but I imagine if there was an embargo on French wine, more people would consider it the best.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Razorhog

The only thing that is different is that Cubans are illegal in the United States. Well, that and the belief some folks have that Cuba is the optimal climate for growing tobacco. Just like regions of France are considered to be the optimal climate for growing grapes. Wine from California and other regions can be good too, but I imagine if there was an embargo on French wine, more people would consider it the best.

Kind of a stretch, Beau....I consider Cubans the best (for me) because of their taste, not their legal status, and I am sure many others with lots of experience with both CCs and NCs do too. And many people do consider French wine the best even though there is no French Embargo. Me? I'll stick to beer, vodka and rum.

[Razorhog]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Kind of a stretch, Beau....I consider Cubans the best (for me) because of their taste, not their legal status, and I am sure many others with lots of experience with both CCs and NCs do too.

A stretch, yes, and perhaps I stated that incorrectly. Just wanted to state that there is a certain "forbidden fruit" factor to Cubans.
The point I was trying to make is that it is grossly unfair to lump cigars into two categories: Cubans and Non-Cubans, when the latter is such a diverse group geographically.

[McSmokey]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Kind of a stretch, Beau....I consider Cubans the best (for me) because of their taste, not their legal status, and I am sure many others with lots of experience with both CCs and NCs do too. And many people do consider French wine the best even though there is no French Embargo. Me? I'll stick to beer, vodka and rum.

Except for the vodka part just giver me whiskey or bourbon

[akumushi]

Originally Posted by Razorhog

A stretch, yes, and perhaps I stated that incorrectly. Just wanted to state that there is a certain "forbidden fruit" factor to Cubans.
The point I was trying to make is that it is grossly unfair to lump cigars into two categories: Cubans and Non-Cubans, when the latter is such a diverse group geographically.

I think the "forbidden fruit" angle is highly exagerated by those for whom CCs are a forbidden fruit. Once you have several boxes of CCs in your humidor next to several boxes of NCs, your own tastes are going to take over. The CCs won't taste any better just because you got them illegally. The CCs in my humidor are not "forbidden fruit" any more than the NCs, because I have twice as many CCs and I know where to get more if I wanted to, so the fact that I keep reaching for them is solely predicated on my subjective tastes.