Supplements - Page 2

icehog3 · 04-19-2012, 10:07 AM

I would be curious to see these studies where "many cases where the kidneys were so over loaded that they had significant damage and were approaching failure.", due to creatine supplementation. I have read several studies, and this seems one of the more extreme that I have heard of.

chachee52 · 04-19-2012, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icehog3

I would be curious to see these studies where "many cases where the kidneys were so over loaded that they had significant damage and were approaching failure.", due to creatine supplementation. I have read several studies, and this seems one of the more extreme that I have heard of.

It's been a while since I did that reseach (back in '99-'00) Have no clue if I still have that research around. But this was the case. This was also in the time that creatine was at the top of the "crazy". So a lot of people were saying "well if a little of this makes me do good, more will make me do better". I don't see/hear this as much any more.
Believe it or not there have been cases of ointments like BioFreeze and Tiger Balm that have caused death in over dosing with them even if it is a topical ointment. If you take anything that is over what your body can uptake than there will be consiquences.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,279482,00.html (there was also a case I remember in MA a year or two later, couldn't find the article quickly)
Just remember supplements are not governed by any agency. And because they are fairly new, there aren't too many long term independant studies out there.

RobR1205 · 04-19-2012, 10:29 AM

Yes! my kinda post! I was always the skinniest kid growing up. When I joined the CG, I started working out 3-5 times a week. In about 10 months, my weight has jumped from 165 pounds to 191 pounds, and I'm exactly 6 feet tall. I'm pretty pleased with the results, and am striving to build even more muscle...hopefully around 200-210.

You just gotta stay motivated and dedicatd to a routine, and I was ale to do that by going to the gym with someone who shared a similar goal. My secret, least lots, but eat healthy. Your body needs lots of carbs and proteins to be able to recover and build muscle properly, but 50g of carbs from a soda is certainly not the same as 50g of carbs from say, whole wheat pasta. Sleep is a big thing too, you build muscle at night when you sleep, not in the gym.

I've been taking mass gainers (true mass by ON) to up my calorie intake. Since I'm so active, my physician said consuming up to 4500 calories in a single day is absolutely necessary.

Additionally, I've enjoyed taking whey protein isolate/concentrate from brands like myoplex and ON. They taste relatively good, so you don't have to hold your nose when you knock it back after the gym! If you want to build muscle, dietologists recommend 0.9- 1.4 grams per pound per day (not all at once though)

Creatine. It may get a bad rep, but I've never had any problems with it it terms of health. There a lot of myths surround it, but as long as you talk to your doctor, you should be fine. I recommend about 5 grams, twice per day ( before and after workout). Drink lots of water because it allows your cells to expand and retain water. Prosource brand creatine is 99.9% pure, and costs about $13 for 100 servings!

Those are my three main supplements. I've dabbled in the world of expensive preworkout supplements, but I've found that the main ingredients are really Arginine, Caffeine, and beta-alanine. I supplement these ingredients before a workout in pill form because they are WAY cheaper than buying something like NO-Xplode.

Sorry for the long post! But I hope this helps! Feel free to personal message me whenever if you have questions. I'm no expert, but I've read many books, taken the classes, and trying stuff out on my own, so I've found what works and doesn't for me. Best of luck!!

Blak Smyth · 04-19-2012, 10:30 AM

I am drinking Ximo right now, this stuff suplements air and water and is the life force of the universe in a neatly packaged bottle. It is the strongest ephedra drink you can get (If you can get it). My number 2 would have been Ephedra Tea before they changed it, if you can find it with the black caps and not the clear ones it should be the OR.

These are supplemental energy drinks without all the sugars and chemicals found in most energy drinks. But these are also about 10x stronger.

icehog3 · 04-19-2012, 10:40 PM

Todd, I will agree severe overuse of most supplements can cause issues. I thought your first post seemed to imply that normal creatine use was causing numerous cases of kidney failure...if I misread, I apologize.

I use Biofreeze from time to time on osteoarthritis on my wrist....looks like I am a human recipe for disaster.

chachee52 · 04-20-2012, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icehog3

Todd, I will agree severe overuse of most supplements can cause issues. I thought your first post seemed to imply that normal creatine use was causing numerous cases of kidney failure...if I misread, I apologize.

I use Biofreeze from time to time on osteoarthritis on my wrist....looks like I am a human recipe for disaster.

In my opinion with creatine and any supplement for that matter, anything over 100% of your daily recomended amount is too much. I went into a GNC the other day, my friend was looking for an herb supplement for migrains, and there was a muscle buider that had 1000% of the daily amount!!!!! Your body is not designed to uptake this, it has to go somewhere, it either is water soluable like creatine and gets flushed through the kidneys hense over loading them, or gets stored in fat and who knows what that will cause later in life.
As for the Biofreeze, the case in MA specifically, the runner used it first thing in the AM, lunch, right before running, after running, before dinner, before going to bed, and who knows how many other times. The point is did you realize that it's a drug and can be over used?

PuffPuffGive1 · 04-19-2012, 10:52 PM

In my opinion and it actually works best for me; whole food is best. I used to take anything and everything under the sun besides roids and or any of the HGH products, and I saw little improvement as far as my physique went. When I decided to drop all supplements (protein, multivitamins, pre-workouts, etc.) and have 4 square meals a day that consisted of plenty of protein, carbs and a good amount of healthy fat; I was finally happy with the way I look after months of hard work. So I would suggest having whole food and limiting the amount of supplements you intake.

icehog3 · 04-19-2012, 10:58 PM

I agree that whole foods are most important, Alan. I eat good protein, low carbs (of a whole grain or natural souce) and low fat. I use supplements to give me an extra edge beyond a solid diet.

emopunker2004 · 04-22-2012, 01:48 AM

can anyone recommend a good fat burner/thermogenic?

PuffPuffGive1 · 04-22-2012, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emopunker2004

can anyone recommend a good fat burner/thermogenic?

I hear the one from USP Labs (the makers of Jack3d) is pretty good...but that's what I hear; can't tell you first hand cause was always afraid of it messing up my liver

the nub · 04-22-2012, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emopunker2004

can anyone recommend a good fat burner/thermogenic?

I've tried ephedrine and caffeine stack and it works amazingly well. Here's a link on dosage. Disregard pics of hot chicks.

http://www.hotnfit.com/ecstack.htm

May not be for everyone so do your research to see if you may have potential complications as with any supplement. Of course, if you don't figure out your cutting cals then it won't work but it does a great job at curbing appetite. Do a google search for ephedrine substitutes- Bronkaid is one but I think there are a couple of other over the counter meds.

area51 · 07-27-2012, 02:54 AM

Welcome to the forum?!

hammondc · 08-30-2012, 12:15 PM

Talk to me about BCAAs and Glutamine.....

I do weight training (mostly upper body)3 times a week. I also do cardio 3 times a week. One day off.

I understand that doing the cardio undermines my attempts to gain muscle mass because my body will cannibalize the muscle during hard cardio sessions. I am not trying to bench 400 lbs, I am trying to look good so long lean muscle is what I seek.

The monkey at GNC tried to sell me on BCAA & Glutamine stating they would prevent the cannibalization of muscle. While he may be 100% accurate, my experience is that the GNC do not always have my best interests in mind.

zemekone · 08-30-2012, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammondc

The monkey at GNC tried to sell me on BCAA & Glutamine stating they would prevent the cannibalization of muscle. While he may be 100% accurate, my experience is that the GNC do not always have my best interests in mind.

he is right, it dose help preserve the muscle while you do cardio... you can take up to 10g of BCAA 3 times a day, and in a glutamine study doctors were giving AIDS and Cancer patients 30g-40g of glutamine a day to prest wasting away

hammondc · 08-30-2012, 01:37 PM

Thanks a bunch Gerry. I may load up on both from A1. Decent prices on the Optimum brand stuff. Or...just find a protein that has them built in.

zemekone · 08-30-2012, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammondc

Thanks a bunch Gerry. I may load up on both from A1. Decent prices on the Optimum brand stuff.

welcome sir

hammondc · 09-24-2012, 03:51 PM

Time for me to re-up my protein.

I want to supplement BCAA & Glutamine as I am doing cardio with my lifting and do not want to catabolize the muscle. Should I be taking one over the other or both or none?

Do you think it would be better to

1. Get a Protein with heavy Glutamine/BCAA built like GNC Wheybolic 60 or Optimum Hydrowhey/Pro Complex

or

2. Get a plain multipurpose protein line Gold Standard and spend the extra $ to supplement BCAA and Glutamine in pill/powder form?

Also. I have been introduced to the term broscience. As in---> there is a lot of marketing hype behind whey hydrolizing etc in HydroWhey/GNC Wheybolic, but it really does not matter or it makes such a small difference that no one other than professional body builders will get the advantage.

One more...where do u guys buy your protein? I have heard it can be cheaper on the ol interwebz, but I am not familiar with who to order from.

zemekone · 09-24-2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammondc

I want to supplement BCAA & Glutamine as I am doing cardio with my lifting and do not want to catabolize the muscle. Should I be taking one over the other or both or none?

i would go with all three seperate... BCAA powder before or during your workout, protein right after your workout, and 10-20g glutamine before you go to sleep.

i would go tigerfitness, DPS nutrition, or bodybuilding...

Adriftpanda · 09-24-2012, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammondc

Time for me to re-up my protein.

I want to supplement BCAA & Glutamine as I am doing cardio with my lifting and do not want to catabolize the muscle. Should I be taking one over the other or both or none?

Do you think it would be better to

1. Get a Protein with heavy Glutamine/BCAA built like GNC Wheybolic 60 or Optimum Hydrowhey/Pro Complex

or

2. Get a plain multipurpose protein line Gold Standard and spend the extra $ to supplement BCAA and Glutamine in pill/powder form?

Also. I have been introduced to the term broscience. As in---> there is a lot of marketing hype behind whey hydrolizing etc in HydroWhey/GNC Wheybolic, but it really does not matter or it makes such a small difference that no one other than professional body builders will get the advantage.

One more...where do u guys buy your protein? I have heard it can be cheaper on the ol interwebz, but I am not familiar with who to order from.

I buy my protein through bodybuilding.com, they are fast and much cheaper than anywhere else.

As far as protein goes I try to stick with something that is high in protein and less in carbs and fats. To me, when taking protein, it should just be protein and nothing else because I getting your fats and carb is simple. I take Hydrobolic FX made by Muscle FX. One of the purest form of protein, that I could fine (93% protein).

Forgot to mention I also take a casein protein (ON) as well before bed.

hammondc · 09-24-2012, 07:38 PM

Thanks Huy. The Casein is kinda what I was talking about with BroScience. Does it really matter if it is slow digesting/fast digesting. I'll look at Hydrobolic as I agree with you on fat/cals and cholesterol is a hang up for me. My family has chunky blood in the genes, so even as clean as i eat, i still have elevated Cholesterol.

04-19-2012, 10:07 AM	#1
icehog3 Admiral Douchebag Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Tom Location: Clermont, Kentucky Posts: 71,290 Trading: (60)	Re: Supplements I would be curious to see these studies where "many cases where the kidneys were so over loaded that they had significant damage and were approaching failure.", due to creatine supplementation. I have read several studies, and this seems one of the more extreme that I have heard of. __________________ Thanks Dave, Julian, James, Kelly, Peter, Gerry, Dave, Mo, Frank, Týr and Mr. Mark!

04-19-2012, 10:29 AM	#3
RobR1205 Starting a new chapter Join Date: Dec 2011 First Name: Rob Location: Texas Posts: 1,158 Trading: (19)	Re: Supplements Yes! my kinda post! I was always the skinniest kid growing up. When I joined the CG, I started working out 3-5 times a week. In about 10 months, my weight has jumped from 165 pounds to 191 pounds, and I'm exactly 6 feet tall. I'm pretty pleased with the results, and am striving to build even more muscle...hopefully around 200-210. You just gotta stay motivated and dedicatd to a routine, and I was ale to do that by going to the gym with someone who shared a similar goal. My secret, least lots, but eat healthy. Your body needs lots of carbs and proteins to be able to recover and build muscle properly, but 50g of carbs from a soda is certainly not the same as 50g of carbs from say, whole wheat pasta. Sleep is a big thing too, you build muscle at night when you sleep, not in the gym. I've been taking mass gainers (true mass by ON) to up my calorie intake. Since I'm so active, my physician said consuming up to 4500 calories in a single day is absolutely necessary. Additionally, I've enjoyed taking whey protein isolate/concentrate from brands like myoplex and ON. They taste relatively good, so you don't have to hold your nose when you knock it back after the gym! If you want to build muscle, dietologists recommend 0.9- 1.4 grams per pound per day (not all at once though) Creatine. It may get a bad rep, but I've never had any problems with it it terms of health. There a lot of myths surround it, but as long as you talk to your doctor, you should be fine. I recommend about 5 grams, twice per day ( before and after workout). Drink lots of water because it allows your cells to expand and retain water. Prosource brand creatine is 99.9% pure, and costs about $13 for 100 servings! Those are my three main supplements. I've dabbled in the world of expensive preworkout supplements, but I've found that the main ingredients are really Arginine, Caffeine, and beta-alanine. I supplement these ingredients before a workout in pill form because they are WAY cheaper than buying something like NO-Xplode. Sorry for the long post! But I hope this helps! Feel free to personal message me whenever if you have questions. I'm no expert, but I've read many books, taken the classes, and trying stuff out on my own, so I've found what works and doesn't for me. Best of luck!!

04-19-2012, 10:30 AM	#4
Blak Smyth Think Blue! Join Date: Jun 2011 First Name: SD Location: THE WOOD Posts: 8,486 Trading: (52)	Re: Supplements I am drinking Ximo right now, this stuff suplements air and water and is the life force of the universe in a neatly packaged bottle. It is the strongest ephedra drink you can get (If you can get it). My number 2 would have been Ephedra Tea before they changed it, if you can find it with the black caps and not the clear ones it should be the OR. These are supplemental energy drinks without all the sugars and chemicals found in most energy drinks. But these are also about 10x stronger. __________________ SUPPORT OUR TROOPS Last edited by Blak Smyth; 04-19-2012 at 10:42 AM.

04-19-2012, 10:40 PM	#5
icehog3 Admiral Douchebag Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Tom Location: Clermont, Kentucky Posts: 71,290 Trading: (60)	Re: Supplements Todd, I will agree severe overuse of most supplements can cause issues. I thought your first post seemed to imply that normal creatine use was causing numerous cases of kidney failure...if I misread, I apologize. I use Biofreeze from time to time on osteoarthritis on my wrist....looks like I am a human recipe for disaster. __________________ Thanks Dave, Julian, James, Kelly, Peter, Gerry, Dave, Mo, Frank, Týr and Mr. Mark!

04-19-2012, 10:52 PM	#7
PuffPuffGive1 I'm the one who knocks! Join Date: Nov 2011 First Name: Alan Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 167 Trading: (5)	Re: Supplements In my opinion and it actually works best for me; whole food is best. I used to take anything and everything under the sun besides roids and or any of the HGH products, and I saw little improvement as far as my physique went. When I decided to drop all supplements (protein, multivitamins, pre-workouts, etc.) and have 4 square meals a day that consisted of plenty of protein, carbs and a good amount of healthy fat; I was finally happy with the way I look after months of hard work. So I would suggest having whole food and limiting the amount of supplements you intake.

04-19-2012, 10:58 PM	#8
icehog3 Admiral Douchebag Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Tom Location: Clermont, Kentucky Posts: 71,290 Trading: (60)	Re: Supplements I agree that whole foods are most important, Alan. I eat good protein, low carbs (of a whole grain or natural souce) and low fat. I use supplements to give me an extra edge beyond a solid diet. __________________ Thanks Dave, Julian, James, Kelly, Peter, Gerry, Dave, Mo, Frank, Týr and Mr. Mark!

04-22-2012, 01:48 AM	#9
emopunker2004 Central Fla rollin Join Date: Jan 2011 First Name: Justin Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 6,171 Trading: (46)	Re: Supplements can anyone recommend a good fat burner/thermogenic? __________________ Cigar Asylum: Where all are equal, unless you are from CA, then you are more equal.

07-27-2012, 02:54 AM	#12
area51 Blowing Smoke Rings Join Date: Sep 2010 First Name: Ken Location: Tejas Posts: 1,259 Trading: (3)	Re: Supplements Welcome to the forum?! __________________

08-30-2012, 12:15 PM	#13
hammondc Moar Padrons! Join Date: Aug 2010 First Name: Chip Location: Senoia, GA Posts: 2,625 Trading: (17)	Re: Supplements Talk to me about BCAAs and Glutamine..... I do weight training (mostly upper body)3 times a week. I also do cardio 3 times a week. One day off. I understand that doing the cardio undermines my attempts to gain muscle mass because my body will cannibalize the muscle during hard cardio sessions. I am not trying to bench 400 lbs, I am trying to look good so long lean muscle is what I seek. The monkey at GNC tried to sell me on BCAA & Glutamine stating they would prevent the cannibalization of muscle. While he may be 100% accurate, my experience is that the GNC do not always have my best interests in mind. Last edited by hammondc; 08-30-2012 at 12:30 PM.

08-30-2012, 01:37 PM	#15
hammondc Moar Padrons! Join Date: Aug 2010 First Name: Chip Location: Senoia, GA Posts: 2,625 Trading: (17)	Re: Supplements Thanks a bunch Gerry. I may load up on both from A1. Decent prices on the Optimum brand stuff. Or...just find a protein that has them built in.

09-24-2012, 03:51 PM	#17
hammondc Moar Padrons! Join Date: Aug 2010 First Name: Chip Location: Senoia, GA Posts: 2,625 Trading: (17)	Re: Supplements Time for me to re-up my protein. I want to supplement BCAA & Glutamine as I am doing cardio with my lifting and do not want to catabolize the muscle. Should I be taking one over the other or both or none? Do you think it would be better to 1. Get a Protein with heavy Glutamine/BCAA built like GNC Wheybolic 60 or Optimum Hydrowhey/Pro Complex or 2. Get a plain multipurpose protein line Gold Standard and spend the extra $ to supplement BCAA and Glutamine in pill/powder form? Also. I have been introduced to the term broscience. As in---> there is a lot of marketing hype behind whey hydrolizing etc in HydroWhey/GNC Wheybolic, but it really does not matter or it makes such a small difference that no one other than professional body builders will get the advantage. One more...where do u guys buy your protein? I have heard it can be cheaper on the ol interwebz, but I am not familiar with who to order from.

09-24-2012, 07:38 PM	#20
hammondc Moar Padrons! Join Date: Aug 2010 First Name: Chip Location: Senoia, GA Posts: 2,625 Trading: (17)	Re: Supplements Thanks Huy. The Casein is kinda what I was talking about with BroScience. Does it really matter if it is slow digesting/fast digesting. I'll look at Hydrobolic as I agree with you on fat/cals and cholesterol is a hang up for me. My family has chunky blood in the genes, so even as clean as i eat, i still have elevated Cholesterol.