Cuban Tobacco

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Malazan

My Service Manager where I work has some Cuban Montecristos and Cohibas. One of the salesmen got them in the Caribbean and brought them home. The boxes say Made in Cuba. I forget that only the US has the embargo and no other country gives a crap about where the cigars come from.

Never seen a legitimate box of Montes or Cohiba cigars that says "Made in Cuba".

"Hecho En Cuba" sure.

But even the counterfeits have that marked on them. The Caribbean is ripe with counterfeit cigar, so depending on where they came from they might or might not be legit.

Originally Posted by Malazan

So Cuban seed cigars are grown somewhere else, just using seeds taken from Cuba back in the day?

Or even recently. Doesn't matter. 1st generation tobacco leaves, grown from Cuban seed, in another country, are not considered Cuban in origin and therefore are only bound by whatever trade agreements exist with that country.

[Malazan]

Originally Posted by T.G

Never seen a legitimate box of Montes or Cohiba cigars that says "Made in Cuba".

"Hecho En Cuba" sure.

But even the counterfeits have that marked on them. The Caribbean is ripe with counterfeit cigar, so depending on where they came from they might or might not be legit.



Or even recently. Doesn't matter. 1st generation tobacco leaves, grown from Cuban seed, in another country, are not considered Cuban in origin and therefore are only bound by whatever trade agreements exist with that country.

They do say Hecho en Cuba, I wrote Made in Cuba cause I'm a silly American

[LostAbbott]

I have heard some people say with authority that it does go the other way though. That Cuba imports tobacco from other countries and then rolls it into their cigars... one gut even said it was their #1 import..... not sure if that is legit info, anyone know?
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[CigarNut]

If Cuba was importing tobacco I don't think that they would be able to keep it secret...

[lenguamor]

Originally Posted by CigarNut

If Cuba was importing tobacco I don't think that they would be able to keep it secret...

Couldn't have said it better.

Originally Posted by CigarNut

If Cuba was importing tobacco I don't think that they would be able to keep it secret...

EXACTLY. Not only that, but think about how proud Cubans are?? To them, their tobacco is perfect... And to many others

[Don Fernando]

Originally Posted by CigarNut

If Cuba was importing tobacco I don't think that they would be able to keep it secret...

In the industry it ain't a secret anymore.

For example: Alejandro Robaina's son has a huge farm in Ecuador. He doesn't produce cigars, nobody buys his tobacco but it 'strangely' disappears every year.

Another example: The MC Open series don't even taste like a real Cuban.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Don Fernando

Alejandro Robaina's son has a huge farm in Ecuador. He doesn't produce cigars, nobody buys his tobacco but it 'strangely' disappears every year.

However...

In light of the facts that

1) the Robaina family specializes in wrapper leaf

and

2) Ecuador specializes in wrapper leaf

and

3) wrapper leaf, if anything, would be the product Cuba would, logically, be most likely to have a need to import,

it would be a fair assumption that the middle Senor Robaina's mystery Ecuadorian vega is producing wrapper leaf, yes?

If that's the case, where are the Cuban cigars with wrappers that look Ecuadorian and where are the Ecuadorian-wrapper-identified cigars with wrappers that look Cuban? I've seen some of each that look vaguely like each other, but nothing I think I'd have any risk of misidentifying.

[shilala]

Cuba is rife with tobacco. For them to import tobacco doesn't make a lot of sense, but it could happen. Tobacco crops are just like any other crops. They can have extremely bad years, or numbers of extremely bad years in a row.
Even at that, I can't see them importing anything but maybe a small amount to keep a particular blend correct. That's a very far-fetched idea, as tobaccos from other parts of the world just don't taste the same. That said, their blenders are the best in the world, true artists at what they do. If anyone could make use of another country's tobacco, it'd be them.
I could definately see them importing wrapper, being it's so tough to grow. They could easily fall short.
Despite all that, I still can't really imagine them importing any tobacco whatsoever.

Originally Posted by shilala

Cuba is rife with tobacco. For them to import tobacco doesn't make a lot of sense, but it could happen. Tobacco crops are just like any other crops. They can have extremely bad years, or numbers of extremely bad years in a row.
Even at that, I can't see them importing anything but maybe a small amount to keep a particular blend correct. That's a very far-fetched idea, as tobaccos from other parts of the world just don't taste the same. That said, their blenders are the best in the world, true artists at what they do. If anyone could make use of another country's tobacco, it'd be them.
I could definately see them importing wrapper, being it's so tough to grow. They could easily fall short.
Despite all that, I still can't really imagine them importing any tobacco whatsoever.

Some of there blenders are good some are just crap COUGH party E5/trinny short robusto COUGH but what you say about cuban and non cuban tobacco tasting completely different is correct and im sure we would of noticed the change in flavour if it was true.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Reaver2145

Some of there blenders are good some are just crap COUGH party E5/trinny short robusto COUGH but what you say about cuban and non cuban tobacco tasting completely different is correct and im sure we would of noticed the change in flavour if it was true.

My point about blenders didn't have anything to do with a particular cigar. Personally, I don't like Partagas across the board. That has no bearing on what they do.
Here's a for instance...
I make spaghetti sauce every year. I make it from the same vegetables from the same seed from the same soil each and every year. I use the same recipe, same tools, same everything, yet every year the sauce tastes different.
When I say different, I don't mean a little different. I mean worlds different. If I gave you a jar of sauce from 2005 and 2008, you'd think I purposely made completely different sauce.
That difference is simply from the growing seasons and how it's expressed by my vegetables.
Blenders can't allow that wide variance in any marca. From one year to another the marca has to be very close to it's mean. They deal with the same ingredient inconsistancies I do, yet they're talented enough to overcome that and produce something, year to year, that's remarkably alike.
I can appreciate that talent because I can't do the same thing with my spaghetti sauce. Not even close. And I make damn good sauce.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by shilala

My point about blenders didn't have anything to do with a particular cigar. Personally, I don't like Partagas across the board. That has no bearing on what they do.
Here's a for instance...
I make spaghetti sauce every year. I make it from the same vegetables from the same seed from the same soil each and every year. I use the same recipe, same tools, same everything, yet every year the sauce tastes different.
When I say different, I don't mean a little different. I mean worlds different. If I gave you a jar of sauce from 2005 and 2008, you'd think I purposely made completely different sauce.
That difference is simply from the growing seasons and how it's expressed by my vegetables.
Blenders can't allow that wide variance in any marca. From one year to another the marca has to be very close to it's mean. They deal with the same ingredient inconsistancies I do, yet they're talented enough to overcome that and produce something, year to year, that's remarkably alike.
I can appreciate that talent because I can't do the same thing with my spaghetti sauce. Not even close. And I make damn good sauce.

Excellent point Scotty. Blending is an art. Getting a marca to taste like that marc from a natural product that has variances in the growing conditions (water, temperature, etc) is no easy task. Making a BBF taste like a BBF from 2007 tobacco, and 2012 tobacco is even more difficult.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by md4958

Excellent point Scotty. Blending is an art. Getting a marca to taste like that marc from a natural product that has variances in the growing conditions (water, temperature, etc) is no easy task. Making a BBF taste like a BBF from 2007 tobacco, and 2012 tobacco is even more difficult.

The hell of it is that there's plenty of 2007's out there for people to call them on the 2012's. They can't slip, or the shelves will stack to the roof with BBF's. Or they'll just stick an EL Band on them and crank them out at twice the buck.
They really do have a "can't lose" product. Their tobacco is so remarkable and different that they can push every pound out the door.
They're only limited by the size of the growing region as to how much tobacco they can crank out.
You'd think, that after so many years, it really doesn't so much come down to the soil anymore. It's got to be about spent, at least to the point where they have to use fertilzers. Maybe not, I don't know the composition of their soil at all. Maybe that it's being volcanic in origin it breaks down very slowly and it'll remain viable for years to come. I'm sure that info isn't readily available.

[LostAbbott]

I would think many experienced botl's would notice as well, but with Habanos S.A. being a murkey quasi government company that recently reported completely bogus and uncheckable revenue and profit numbers it is really hard to know what they are doing or would do... I do not know enough about the making of a cigar to know if they could do it or not, and I also agree it would be a hard secret to keep...
Posted via Mobile Device

[GWN]

There are also a few companies around the world that buy Cuban tobacco and roll their own cigars. One guy is here in Toronto, though not sure if he's still in business.
I also had someone bring me back this stick from Europe. Note though, that these cigars are little like authentic Habanos:

[srduggins]

I thought he was serious, but then I just dismissed it as he didn't know what he was talking about. Something that I've been doing more and more lately.

[Sam Leccia]

Truth is you'd never know.

There is zero regulation in the industry. which can be good, and bad.

it's bad in the case that any manufacturer in any country and say whatever they want on it's packaging, whether we are talking about age numbers or tobacco origin or type.

it happens more often then it doesn't. All you know is what the manufacturers want you to know. It's quite different from the liquor industry which has bi-laws and regulation. Age statements and regions are 100% legit in the liquor industry. ex. Scotch must be made in Scotland from 100% malted barley, Tequilla must be made in the tequila region of mexico from aquave etc...

The cigar industry is free game.


it's true.

[Pat1075]

Originally Posted by Sam Leccia

Truth is you'd never know.

There is zero regulation in the industry. which can be good, and bad.

it's bad in the case that any manufacturer in any country and say whatever they want on it's packaging, whether we are talking about age numbers or tobacco origin or type.

it happens more often then it doesn't. All you know is what the manufacturers want you to know. It's quite different from the liquor industry which has bi-laws and regulation. Age statements and regions are 100% legit in the liquor industry. ex. Scotch must be made in Scotland from 100% malted barley, Tequilla must be made in the tequila region of mexico from aquave etc...
it's true.

Sam it's good to see you back.
Sam speaks the truth here. This is why there are so many cigars with claims of being "cuban when they are honduran, nicaraguan, or dominican. Or they make caims of being 12 years old.

The cigar industry is free game.

[never_enough]

I'm not educated enough to add to the topic, but I am enjoying reading about it. Its always nice to learn things.

[Zanaspus]

This conversation reminds me of an interview with Don Pepin Garcia a few years back. When asked, "If you had free access to all the world's tobacco, what would you choose to use?" He answered, "The ligero leaf and the binder would be from Nicaragua, and the rest would be cuban." Maybe someone's using the recipe?

Also, do all the fake Cubans in Cuba get made with Cuban tobacco? Something to think about...