Is it odd?

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by icehog3

I am missing the correlation here, Wayne.

I never dryboxed the cigars I speak of, just cut them and found them to seem to have a very tight draw. Put them back in the humi at the same RH they had been stored previously, and let them sit a few months. So the RH was never higher, or lower, always the same. How does that "lend to the notion of a higher RH is not a bad thing"? It seems to me to be irrelevant in this situation.

Because more of the cigar is affected by the RH. The cap, while not airtight, does provide some insulation to the cigar's filler. So by allowing more humidity into the cigar it swells and thus "unplugs" the cigar.

*disclaimer - I am not saying this is fact or some magical effect. I am just stating what happens and what the outcome might be.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by wayner123

Because more of the cigar is affected by the RH. The cap, while not airtight, does provide some insulation to the cigar's filler. So by allowing more humidity into the cigar it swells and thus "unplugs" the cigar.

So you are saying that my cigars, humidifed at 62%, actually reach a higher RH than 62% in the same environment when the cap is cut? Or that perhaps my cigars are not reaching that 62% when the caps are on in a 62% enviroment?

I am not sure I would agree with that, but like you, I am no scientist.

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by icehog3

So you are saying that my cigars, humidifed at 62%, actually reach a higher RH than 62% in the same environment when the cap is cut? Or that perhaps my cigars are not reaching that 62% when the caps are on in a 62% enviroment?

I am not sure I would agree with that, but like you, I am no scientist.

The latter.

In that thread we looked at wetting cigars and how much of the water reached the filler due to absorbtion. The conclusion was it didn't reach the filler at all, or was so small it couldn't be quantified. So based on that info, you "could" say that the filler of a cigar is not at 62%, but through experience you have come to like the way your cigars smoke at 62%. Have you tried bumping your cigars up to say 70% for a few months and see if you like them? Or have less plug issues? It might be a worthwhile experiment.

So my understanding is that by allowing the humidity to come into more contact with the filler, you are raising the inside of the cigar's RH.

[NCRadioMan]

Originally Posted by wayner123

Have you tried bumping your cigars up to say 70% for a few months and see if you like them? Or have less plug issues? It might be a worthwhile experiment.

I, like Tom, keep mine in the low 60's. A few years ago, I did keep a humidor close to 70 just to compare. I have never had many plug problems to begin with but I did experience tighter draws, burn issues, harshness and muted flavors when smoking from the 70% humidor. Needless to say, I didn't keep that humidor at 70.

I have also had luck with a few plugged cigars by just putting them back after cutting and testing the draw. I also don't know how or why but in my experience, it worked.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by wayner123

The latter.

In that thread we looked at wetting cigars and how much of the water reached the filler due to absorbtion. The conclusion was it didn't reach the filler at all, or was so small it couldn't be quantified. So based on that info, you "could" say that the filler of a cigar is not at 62%, but through experience you have come to like the way your cigars smoke at 62%. Have you tried bumping your cigars up to say 70% for a few months and see if you like them? Or have less plug issues? It might be a worthwhile experiment.

My preference for 62% came from a couple years of experimentation, starting with the 70% and gradually working my way down in humidity. I went through long periods at 70%, 67&, 65%, so I can say my preference for 62% is definitely experience-based, and I much prefer the way my cigars taste and burn at 62% over 70%..

I still am not convinced that wetting the wrapper and not having the mositure reach the filler is equivalent with an RH level affecting the filler during long term storage, but this is strictly my thoughts and I don't have any science to base it on....making the thought worthless to anyone but me.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by wayner123

In that thread we looked at wetting cigars and how much of the water reached the filler due to absorbtion. The conclusion was it didn't reach the filler at all, or was so small it couldn't be quantified. So based on that info, you "could" say that the filler of a cigar is not at 62%, but through experience you have come to like the way your cigars smoke at 62%.

I think there is a logical fallacy in this, Wayner. Granted the water didn't get to the filler within the span of a few minutes or hours, but I am SURE if you wet the cigar and let it sit for months, the extra humidity would permeate the cigar. When you have a gas-permeable solid (tobacco, in this case) and you put it in a humidified environment for a sufficient amount of time, the solid will reach equilibrium with the environment (in this case it will be evenly humidified). If you put a cigar in a 70% humi for a day, yes the filler will still be lower than the wrapper and binder, but leave it for a number of weeks or months and equilibrium will, necessarily, be reached. Thats just the nature of gases and permeable membranes.

All that to say, if Tom's cigars are in the cab/vino/humidor long enough the entire cigar will, eventually, reach equlibrium. The binder and wrapper will humidify faster, but it is not possible that it will forever "insulate" the filler.

Cut the caps or not, after long enough time in the humi (I would say a month or so, although a couple of weeks is probably sufficient) the cigar will always be evenly humidified.

( from a bible scholar. Take everything with a grain of salt, but know that that grain of salt may be your eternal damnation )

[md4958]

Originally Posted by wayner123

Because more of the cigar is affected by the RH. The cap, while not airtight, does provide some insulation to the cigar's filler. So by allowing more humidity into the cigar it swells and thus "unplugs" the cigar.

*disclaimer - I am not saying this is fact or some magical effect. I am just stating what happens and what the outcome might be.

So if I understand your theory correctly, the swelling will help with a tight draw???



This kinda contradicts the common practice of letting wet cigars dry out to improve the draw.

Im no scientist, but the latter makes more sense to me.

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by md4958

So if I understand your theory correctly, the swelling will help with a tight draw???



This kinda contradicts the common practice of letting wet cigars dry out to improve the draw.

Im no scientist, but the latter makes more sense to me.

And exactly why the discussion and question was posed. icehog3 and Bao have used a non dry box method and it worked for them.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by wayner123

And exactly why the discussion and question was posed. icehog3 and Bao have used a non dry box method and it worked for them.

Tom and Bao didnt ADD humidity to their cigars...the cigars went right back into the ambient RH that they had previously resided in. The only difference being the cap had already been cut.

Unless Tom and Bao, I read your posts incorrectly??

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by md4958

Tom and Bao didnt ADD humidity to their cigars...the cigars went right back into the ambient RH that they had previously resided in. The only difference being the cap had already been cut.

Unless Tom and Bao, I read your posts incorrectly??

That's why I asked "why" that might happen. If it's going into the same RH, then what's happening?

In the last reply I merely said they used a non-drybox method.

Originally Posted by md4958

So if I understand your theory correctly, the swelling will help with a tight draw???



This kinda contradicts the common practice of letting wet cigars dry out to improve the draw.

Im no scientist, but the latter makes more sense to me.

When you say wet, do you mean wet or just kept in high humidity. Because , if it were actually wet, the draw would be restricted because of the actual filler sticking together. No?

[md4958]

Originally Posted by itzfrank

When you say wet, do you mean wet or just kept in high humidity. Because , if it were actually wet, the draw would be restricted because of the actual filler sticking together. No?

Wet meaning the tobacco is retaining a good amount of moisture. Tobacco leaves are moistened prior to being rolled into cigars. The tobacco, being hygroscopic, will "hold on" to this moisture. Many times this results in a poor smoke. "Drying" these cigars consists of gradually reducing the humidity via rest in your humidor. The moisture in your cigar will reach an equilibrium with your humidors RH%. Could take a week, could take a couple months.

I had a box of Punch Double Coronas that were unsmokeable for 6 months.

Originally Posted by md4958

Wet meaning the tobacco is retaining a good amount of moisture. Tobacco leaves are moistened prior to being rolled into cigars. The tobacco, being hygroscopic, will "hold on" to this moisture. Many times this results in a poor smoke. "Drying" these cigars consists of gradually reducing the humidity via rest in your humidor. The moisture in your cigar will reach an equilibrium with your humidors RH%. Could take a week, could take a couple months.

I had a box of Punch Double Coronas that were unsmokeable for 6 months.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Mark]

Boy, these pretzels are really makin' me thirsty.