Motorcyclists and non-riders , I would like opinions on this story

[jitzy]

If you look at the video the marked car was right there also, he didn't come later he was right there so yes this jackass knew what he was doing. Like I said as for pulling the gun, if you run from the cops theres usually a reason. I would of had my firearm out in that situation too and like him holstered it when I saw I didn't need it out. We could all argue this till were blue in the face and get no where with it but I'm gonna end my stance on this with this, I wear a ballistic vest at work everyday, winter and summer alike and its not on me cause its cool or makes me look bad ass I wear it cause the fact of the matter is I need to. Every job I go to and every car stop I do has the potential to end badly and when one of those stops happens to end with a 100+ mph chase then yes the gun comes out.

[neoflex]

Originally Posted by jitzy

If you look at the video the marked car was right there also, he didn't come later he was right there so yes this jackass knew what he was doing. Like I said as for pulling the gun, if you run from the cops theres usually a reason. I would of had my firearm out in that situation too and like him holstered it when I saw I didn't need it out. We could all argue this till were blue in the face and get no where with it but I'm gonna end my stance on this with this, I wear a ballistic vest at work everyday, winter and summer alike and its not on me cause its cool or makes me look bad ass I wear it cause the fact of the matter is I need to. Every job I go to and every car stop I do has the potential to end badly and when one of those stops happens to end with a 100+ mph chase then yes the gun comes out.

I just watched the original footage again after reading your thread but if you watch it in it's entirety the guy is far from running from anything and I actually feel a little more sympathy for him. If you watch at the beginning he is moving with the flow of traffic than he gets on it and obviously does a wheelie which is a boneheaded move for a heavily congested I-95 but if you watch from the 1/2 way point to the end the guy is back to moving with the flow of traffic and actually gets passed by a clapped out looking Accord a couple times and even gets passed by an Acura TL a couple times right before he exits the Interstate so he clearly isn't running from anything. Supposedly the cops report said when he exited his vehicle the biker revved the bike as if he were going to run. If you catch the version I posted with audio, that is clearly BS and there was also no mention of the weapon being drawn in the report which I don't know if that is required or not so it may be a moot point.
Yes, if this guy didn't ride like a jackass he wouldn't have been pulled over but who here hasn't done something stupid without thinking and had it happen at the most inopportune time. I know last summer I was on a country back road with no cars and at an intersection as I made a right I got on it a little too hard and the front wheel came up off the ground about two feet for a short distance and there happened to be a cop coming the opposite direction a little distance away and I am sure he saw the headlight go up and back down.
Of course he banged a U-turn and pulled me over which he should have. I was calm and polite using sir and told him that I honestly didn't mean for the front wheel to come up as I knew that was why he pulled me. I told him I deserved a ticket but it was an honest mistake. He was cool about the whole thing ran my license and came back and told me he wasn't going to ticket me and just told me to be more careful and to not ride like an idiot. He was probably also surprised to see a 30+ year old on the bike and not some snot nosed teen but he didn't come out of his car gun drawn and I don't think he needed to nor did the cop in the video. Prob would have been more effective if he came out of the car with badge in hand rather than his weapon. Again, I am not a cop so I may be totally out of line but the guy definitely was not running. If he were the cop wouldn't have a snow balls chance in hell of catching him on that bike on the Interstate, and if he were I doubt he would have kept with the flow of traffic the majority of the video and even stop at the red light behind a line of cars. Not that I ever recommend it as a traffic violation easily becomes a felony but if a bike wants to outrun a car, I would say 95% of the time he is getting away. So the assessment that this guy was running is wrong. I think there are a lot of holes in the story on both sides and both sides are guilty of being wrong and raiding the guys house was clearly questionable at best.
These GoPro helmet cams are becoming very very popular and I have seen other traffic stops taped in videos before and the outcomes were never like this one or even resulted in a warrant and a house being raided. Just go to Youtube and do a search for GoPro and you'll come up with pages of videos. Most of the traffic stops that have been taped are pretty standard even when the bikers were caught being jackasses. I dunno I think both parties on this one need to reflect on their actions and make changes in the future.

[neoflex]

Probably should have played out more like this http://www.youtube.com/user/SuperMot...16/FK6_iAVcfIY

[mithrilG60]

Originally Posted by neoflex

I just watched the original footage again after reading your thread but if you watch it in it's entirety the guy is far from running from anything and I actually feel a little more sympathy for him. If you watch at the beginning he is moving with the flow of traffic than he gets on it and obviously does a wheelie which is a boneheaded move for a heavily congested I-95 but if you watch from the 1/2 way point to the end the guy is back to moving with the flow of traffic and actually gets passed by a clapped out looking Accord a couple times and even gets passed by an Acura TL a couple times right before he exits the Interstate so he clearly isn't running from anything.

Easy for you to say that now having had the benefit of seeing the sections of the video the motorcyclist wants the world to see. Not so easy for that officer to determine in real time considering this guy came into his line of sight stunting at high speed on a crowded public highway and that's all he had on which to base his decision to pursue and pull over.

Just because you obey the speed limit 9 times out of 10 doesn't mean you shouldn't get a ticket if on that 10th time you happen to be unlucky enough to speed through a radar trap or whip past an unmarked cruiser.

The warrants after the fact were well over the top IMHO and should be dealt with by the appropriate means. The rest of it was 100% on the biker and he should be thankful that's all that happened to him, specifically he should be grateful that it actually was a police officer who stepped out of that car and not some road raging crazy.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Neuromancer

Okay, Tom...the guy was speeding, doing 100+ on a crotch rocket...why would any cop automatically think it was a gun situation and pull his weapon out of his holster? Do you do that every time you stop someone for speeding or running a red light? I think the cop went way overboard on his reaction to a guy on a crotch rocket...we've all seen them flying down the highway at 100+...you should see what they're like on I-95 coming out of Miami...why does that warrent this cop pulling out his piece automatically? Do you do that for traffic stops? Just cause someone's doing 100?

Remember that we have the benefit of knowing the context of the motorcyclist's actions while watching the video. The cop, on the other hand, likely does not know why the cyclist is going 140+ MPH. Could he have just committed a forcible felony, (i.e., robbed a bank, killed his ex-wife, etc)? The cop doesn't know. Could he be willing to kill to avoid being caught if he did just commit a crime? The cop doesn't know. We do know because we have the luxury of seeing the video from a hot-dog cycling website...the cop did not have that luxury.

In this situation, I would have had my sidearm unholstered and "at the ready" until I felt the danger of the unknown had passed. It seems to me that is exactly what this cop did. Should he have yelled "police" as he approached? Absolutely, but fear and adrenaline sometimes make people act with a "survival" instinct first.

And without the benefit of knowing the context of the motorcyclist's actions, as we do after the fact, I completely disagree with the idea that this cop should have "known" for a fact that his guy wasn't running from something.

[aich75013]

Originally Posted by icehog3

In this situation, I would have had my sidearm unholstered and "at the ready" until I felt the danger of the unknown had passed. It seems to me that is exactly what this cop did. Should he have yelled "police" as he approached? Absolutely, but fear and adrenaline sometimes make people act with a "survival" instinct first.

While I agree and can definately understand your point, I have to admit that having someone pull a gun, and not immediately identifying themselves as a PO would scare the $#!+ out of me.
(I don't ride a bike because I'm afraid the ability to go that fast might have an influence on the way I drive.)

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by aich75013

While I agree and can definately understand your point, I have to admit that having someone pull a gun, and not immediately identifying themselves as a PO would scare the $#!+ out of me.
(I don't ride a bike because I'm afraid the ability to go that fast might have an influence on the way I drive.)

I agree Adrian, that he should have identified himself sooner, though I also understand that all this happens in a fraction of a second, rather than the leisurely pace of Monday morning quarterbacking.

[cobra03]

This all boils down to the fact that the knuckle head was driving like an azz. No one made him drive like that. It was a choice he made and he paid the price.This would not have been an issue if he was obeying the law.I have no sympathy for him . He's lucky they didnt have to scape him up off the pavement after he wrecked.

[RGD.]

Not targeting you Tom - just a convenient quote:

Originally Posted by icehog3

I agree Adrian, that he should have identified himself sooner, though I also understand that all this happens in a fraction of a second, rather than the leisurely pace of Monday morning quarterbacking.

For the people saying he should have identified himself sooner - jeez, he does that in 4 seconds according to the timer on the video.

The suspect is doing something he does not want him to do: backing up in a running bike. He gives a command three times followed by "State Police". Seems pretty fast to me.

Also if you look at the long version of the video - at 3 minutes in the biker turns and looks behind him. He knew damn good and well the State Troopers were there. I'm in Maryland frequently and I haven't seen an unmarked State car that didn't have dash and/or grill lights in it yet.
Also the trooper never brought his gun up to bear - and he put it away as soon as the bike was turned off.

People can argue this all day but it's still gonna end up State Trooper - 1, Idiot Biker - 0.



Ron

[RGD.]

Originally Posted by aich75013

. . . I have to admit that having someone pull a gun, and not immediately identifying themselves as a PO would scare the $#!+ out of me.. . .

And I can tell you that even when they do identify themselves it still makes you want to wet your panties. About 20 years ago I was doing some property management work over in Arlington. Was in the house with two of my guys for about 15 minutes. Went to go back out to my van, opened the front door and was greeted by two service revolvers pointed straight at me from Arlington's finest. Seems someone forget to turn off the security system and failed to mention to me that the home had one.

Ron