College Hoops Thread '09-'10

[The Poet]

Well, I'm glad to see there was some activity on this thread while I was gone, since there was so little on the court. A few thoughts on the postings:

All props to Northern Iowa for knocking out top-ranked Kansas. I knew they had good help-defense and some decent options on offense, but I never gave them a chance against KU. I doubt if you did either. But I don't doubt you also whooped - one way or the other - when that mad Iranian bomber Farokhmanesh shot down the Jayhawks with that trey at 38 ticks. And from the Kansas viewpoint . . . well, perhaps they should change that "Rock Chalk" to "Brick Choke".

And while we're on the subject, props too to Cornell, St. Mary's, and Washington. Thanks for screwing up everybody's brackets.

When it comes to the Orange, I think they have a good shot at the Final Four, and put them there in my bracket. But I do not trust that zone to win a championship, especially when a talented and well-coached team has a week to prepare for it. Luckily for them, Butler and Xavier is the latter, and K-State the former, but neither is both. Unluckily for them, both Mich. State and Ohio State, possible semis opponents, ARE both.

Duke, another 1-seed, is in my eyes the least talented of the top teams left. But they are more talented than many of you give them credit, and are amongst the best coached squads left. They can beat you at their game or yours . . . and they can fall flat on their face. Fortunately for them, neither Purdue without Hummel nor Baylor/St. Mary's match up well against them, so they could . . . COULD! . . . walk into the FF.

Now for the sticky one: From what I've seen so far, Kentucky has played at a higher level than anybody else so far. If they keep it up, and considering the way they have diddled about in other games this season that is a sizable IF, they now have to be favored. At that point, we will need to wait and see if the NCAA lets them keep their wins. Perhaps you missed it, but a few days back the Sec. of Education Arne Duncan stated that there were a dozen teams in the Tourney with a graduation rate of less than 40%, and due to this he felt they should not even be allowed to compete - and UK was amongst these. As he put it, that's a low bar if you can't graduate 2 out of 5 of your student-athletes. Of course, he has no power over the NCAA, but he says he does intend to use the power of his office to push for such a requirement.

On a subject unrelated to this . . . leastwise for rabid Kentucky fans . . . the appeal of Memphis University to the NCAA regarding the penalties and sanctions levied against their 2007-08 team has been denied, and they have had to forfeit their 38 wins that year. As for whether or not they can keep that loss to Kansas in the championship game . . . you remember, the one they gave the Jayhawks from the line, after Calipari said all season that their poor free-throw shooting hadn't hurt them yet, so why think that it would now? . . . well, I suppose they can keep it.

OK, let the spitballs fly. I'm ready!

[jcruse64]

Incoming.....ptooey!!!

I saw the story on Memphis this morning. I am probably not educated enough with the full case, but I thought this hinged on the fact that NCAA bosses told Memphis twice that Rose could play, so they played him. What'd I miss????

On graduation rates, do one-and-done's factor in these grad rates (I'd assume they do)? Why penalize a program whose talented players go off to play for the big $$$ before they finish a degree?

Originally Posted by jcruse64

On graduation rates, do one-and-done's factor in these grad rates (I'd assume they do)? Why penalize a program whose talented players go off to play for the big $$$ before they finish a degree?

Can't answer this for sure, but it certainly seems to me that the handful of players who leave school early to play pro ball are going to have a negligible effect on overall graduation rates.

What is probably irritating them the most about schools like Kentucky is for some reason there is a huge racial disparity in the athletic grad rates:

http://web.bus.ucf.edu/documents/spo...s_Bball_PR.pdf

[NCRadioMan]

Originally Posted by jcruse64

On graduation rates, do one-and-done's factor in these grad rates (I'd assume they do)? Why penalize a program whose talented players go off to play for the big $$$ before they finish a degree?

Yes, it does count against the rate. As does a player that transfers to another school.

It's all screwed up.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by NCRadioMan

Yes, it does count against the rate. As does a player that transfers to another school.

It's all screwed up.

According to the story I read in USA Today (available online, if you want to search), that 40% figure did NOT include any players who left early for the NBA, nor did it include any players who transferred. Furthermore, that graduation rate was not calculated over a four-year cycle, but rather a six-year one, which not only makes allowance for the redshirts and fifth-year seniors but also for the added strain put upon a player's time and energy devoted to the team (why no such allowance is duly given to the poor slob who flips burgers or stocks shelves in order to pay tuition, don't ask me). However, it is logical to assume that this figure DOES include those scrubs and walk-ons who sit on the end of the bench, and who feel lucky if they get into a game for a minute at the end of a blow-out, and whose main contribution to the success of the team is as the practice squad against the starters in scrimmages. And although I have no facts to support the assertion, I would think it also logical to assume that the graduation rate of these benchwarmers is HIGHER than that of the team stars. If that is taken as a given, even if just for argument's sake, then the actual graduation rate of those players who truly do account for the success or failure of the team is even significantly LOWER than the 40% figure given in the report.

But hey, who cares? What role does education and integrity play in all this, when there are games to win? Why should an institute of higher learning concern itself whether or not any learning truly happens? What business is it of theirs?


If nothing else, I'm trying my best to keep this thread going until action starts again Thursday . . . since nobody much cares about the NIT games this evening.

[NCRadioMan]

Originally Posted by The Poet

According to the story I read in USA Today (available online, if you want to search), that 40% figure did NOT include any players who left early for the NBA, nor did it include any players who transferred.

That's not what Doug Gottlieb and other talking heads at ESPN (HYPE) have been saying.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by NCRadioMan

That's not what Doug Gottlieb and other talking heads at ESPN (HYPE) have been saying.

I believe you, brother. However:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/educati...proposal_N.htm

Look at the paragraph right after the 12 schools cited. That's all I know.

[jcruse64]

Originally Posted by The Poet

But hey, who cares? What role does education and integrity play in all this, when there are games to win? Why should an institute of higher learning concern itself whether or not any learning truly happens? What business is it of theirs?

I'm with ya. Not even touching on all the behind-the-scenes stuff with boosters/way-more-money-than-sense supporters who are throwing $$$ around behind the scenes and adding to all the unsavoriness (sp?). I love UK ball, but I also am not dumb enough to think UK Blue is pure Blue. I lay a lot of the blame on that right with NCAA, which now comes into billions in revenue on the backs of the "student-athlete". Plenty of blame to go around here. And it all starts well before college.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by jcruse64

I'm with ya. Not even touching on all the behind-the-scenes stuff with boosters/way-more-money-than-sense supporters who are throwing $$$ around behind the scenes and adding to all the unsavoriness (sp?). I love UK ball, but I also am not dumb enough to think UK Blue is pure Blue. I lay a lot of the blame on that right with NCAA, which now comes into billions in revenue on the backs of the "student-athlete". Plenty of blame to go around here. And it all starts well before college.

Joe, the more you post here, the more I like you.

[WildBlueSooner]

Originally Posted by The Poet

Well, I'm glad to see there was some activity on this thread while I was gone, since there was so little on the court. A few thoughts on the postings:

All props to Northern Iowa for knocking out top-ranked Kansas. I knew they had good help-defense and some decent options on offense, but I never gave them a chance against KU. I doubt if you did either. But I don't doubt you also whooped - one way or the other - when that mad Iranian bomber Farokhmanesh shot down the Jayhawks with that trey at 38 ticks. And from the Kansas viewpoint . . . well, perhaps they should change that "Rock Chalk" to "Brick Choke".

And while we're on the subject, props too to Cornell, St. Mary's, and Washington. Thanks for screwing up everybody's brackets.

When it comes to the Orange, I think they have a good shot at the Final Four, and put them there in my bracket. But I do not trust that zone to win a championship, especially when a talented and well-coached team has a week to prepare for it. Luckily for them, Butler and Xavier is the latter, and K-State the former, but neither is both. Unluckily for them, both Mich. State and Ohio State, possible semis opponents, ARE both.

Duke, another 1-seed, is in my eyes the least talented of the top teams left. But they are more talented than many of you give them credit, and are amongst the best coached squads left. They can beat you at their game or yours . . . and they can fall flat on their face. Fortunately for them, neither Purdue without Hummel nor Baylor/St. Mary's match up well against them, so they could . . . COULD! . . . walk into the FF.

Now for the sticky one: From what I've seen so far, Kentucky has played at a higher level than anybody else so far. If they keep it up, and considering the way they have diddled about in other games this season that is a sizable IF, they now have to be favored. At that point, we will need to wait and see if the NCAA lets them keep their wins. Perhaps you missed it, but a few days back the Sec. of Education Arne Duncan stated that there were a dozen teams in the Tourney with a graduation rate of less than 40%, and due to this he felt they should not even be allowed to compete - and UK was amongst these. As he put it, that's a low bar if you can't graduate 2 out of 5 of your student-athletes. Of course, he has no power over the NCAA, but he says he does intend to use the power of his office to push for such a requirement.

On a subject unrelated to this . . . leastwise for rabid Kentucky fans . . . the appeal of Memphis University to the NCAA regarding the penalties and sanctions levied against their 2007-08 team has been denied, and they have had to forfeit their 38 wins that year. As for whether or not they can keep that loss to Kansas in the championship game . . . you remember, the one they gave the Jayhawks from the line, after Calipari said all season that their poor free-throw shooting hadn't hurt them yet, so why think that it would now? . . . well, I suppose they can keep it.

OK, let the spitballs fly. I'm ready!

No spitballs....I just love reading about UK good or bad...because when you are hated, you are damn good.