Mokapots, Moka, or Stovetop Espresso, Period.

[Zipper]

I know I avoided the coffee forum like the plague before...but now's a good a time as any to try new things, right?

So I guess my query is: Why Bialetti?

[md4958]

Great post. One thing about mokas that should be mentioned is the more you use it the better your coffee will taste.

also, never put it in the dishwasher.

I keep trying mine, but it tastes burnt. I think I am running to hot?

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by TRicker

I keep trying mine, but it tastes burnt. I think I am running to hot?

Well... cut that out.

Slow brewing under pressure is the key. And you can't get that good, slow gooey brew if the grind isn't fine enough and the filter isn't filled FULLY and EVENLY.

Here's the deal. When water hits the ground coffee in the filterbasket it expands. The expanding coffee, soon to be a rock hard puck, creates resistance to the flow of water. The resistance creates a lot of pressure inside the lower pot, capice? It's the water, moving slowly thru the puck, that drags all the good stuff out of the grind. To get the pressure and the good stuff from the ground beans and to NOT get a burnt or bitter taste... the water needs to move thru all the coffee in the puck.

• If there isn't enough coffee in the basket it won't be able to swell up (enough) and create real pressure; and/or
• If the coffee isn't packed in the basket uniformly, water will cut a channel thru the path of least resistance and bypass a lot of the grind.

So you need to use a burr grinder (or buy professionally ground coffee) to get uniform grounds that won't encourage water channeling. Also, you have to fill the basket fully and uniformly to avoid channeling, insure even wetting of the grounds and to create the pressure that really gets the oils emulsified, out of the grind and into your cup.

Short version - grind evenly and pack the filterbasket full and uniformly. Brew slowly.

I hope this helps.

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

Well... cut that out.

Slow brewing under pressure is the key. And you can't get that good, slow gooey brew if the grind isn't fine enough and the filter isn't filled FULLY and EVENLY.

Here's the deal. When water hits the ground coffee in the filterbasket it expands. The expanding coffee, soon to be a rock hard puck, creates resistance to the flow of water. The resistance creates a lot of pressure inside the lower pot, capice? It's the water, moving slowly thru the puck, that drags all the good stuff out of the grind. To get the pressure and the good stuff from the ground beans and to NOT get a burnt or bitter taste... the water needs to move thru all the coffee in the puck.

• If there isn't enough coffee in the basket it won't be able to swell up (enough) and create real pressure; and/or
• If the coffee isn't packed in the basket uniformly, water will cut a channel thru the path of least resistance and bypass a lot of the grind.

So you need to use a burr grinder (or buy professionally ground coffee) to get uniform grounds that won't encourage water channeling. Also, you have to fill the basket fully and uniformly to avoid channeling, insure even wetting of the grounds and to create the pressure that really gets the oils emulsified, out of the grind and into your cup.

Short version - grind evenly and pack the filterbasket full and uniformly. Brew slowly.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for the tip, I got a burr grinder,so I think I'm ok there, Pretty sure I just need to slow down the actual procees.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

So you need to use a burr grinder (or buy professionally ground coffee) to get uniform grounds that won't encourage water channeling. .

Originally Posted by TRicker

I keep trying mine, but it tastes burnt. I think I am running to hot?

Tim, if you need some coffee, ill set you up on Friday.

Originally Posted by md4958

Tim, if you need some coffee, ill set you up on Friday.

Thanks for the offer but I'm good for now. Just got a couple a pounds of killer beans coffee I'm playing with.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by TRicker

Thanks for the offer but I'm good for now. Just got a couple a pounds of killer beans coffee I'm playing with.

If the roast and blend arent right youll never make good italian coffee... what kinda coffee are you using

[Mister Moo]

David! Tricker! Good deal.

Please keep us posted on your results.

[SteveDMatt]

I know this may be sacrilegious,but the Dr. says no caffeine. Can you recommend a decaf blend for this type of brewing? My moka pot has been on the shelf since the Dr.s recommendation.

Great thread BTW.

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by Zipper

I know I avoided the coffee forum like the plague before...but now's a good a time as any to try new things, right?

So I guess my query is: Why Bialetti?

Fun thing, getting good results from a mokapot.

Why Bialetti? I guess they make the most of them and have 'em right. I've tried off-brands from ebay, the specialty stores, etc. and they don't always execute so well. Pots come in aluminum (don't clean them with soap), stainless steel (good, durable brewers but they don't seem to produce crema) and ceramic (never had one but they're pretty).

Exception: a little red-topped Guzzini, if you can find one. Heavy, well made good design. Hard to find.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

Why Bialetti?

I agree. I sell a couple different brands at my shop. But I always recommend the Bialetti to my customers. Yeah, they are twice as much price wise, but if you take care of them and change the gaskets they will last you forever.

Im my opinion the stainless steel look beautiful (my mom has them for when company is over) but they make a lousy cup of coffee.

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by md4958

...Im my opinion the stainless steel look beautiful (my mom has them for when company is over) but they make a lousy cup of coffee.

I agree they look good but I'm not so certain about the quality of the cup.

In my experience stainless is tricky to heat slowly and lame in the crema department - but I can't tell a difference in the taste between brew from stainless and aluminum. This conclusion comes after weeks of using both, side by side. I know it's easy to overheat coffee in a steel pot during brewing and that, for sure, can lead to less-than-ideal brew. Steel is bit finicky but not (exactly) a bad thing. I think steel just demands more practice to get it right. In my opinion.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

I agree they look good but I'm not so certain about the quality of the cup.

In my experience stainless is tricky to heat slowly and lame in the crema department - but I can't tell a difference in the taste between brew from stainless and aluminum. This conclusion comes after weeks of using both, side by side. I know it's easy to overheat coffee in a steel pot during brewing and that, for sure, can lead to less-than-ideal brew. Steel is bit finicky but not (exactly) a bad thing. I think steel just more practice to get it right. In my opinion.

I think your opinion is justified. Its the same as in anyother cookware. Stainless looks great and is easy to clean etc, but aluminium transfers heat more efficiently.

I had a customer come in and ask about stainless mokas while my cousin from italy was here. The woman insisted that one should only use a stainless pot because of the health risks associated with aluminium.
My cousin responeded in italian "yeah, but they make shitty coffee, and life is too short to drink shitty coffee"... she bought the aluminum bialetti.

[D_A]

Great post! I just picked up a Bialetti and there are some great tips in here to help me improve. Thanks.

[coffeemonkey]

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

Pots come in aluminum (don't clean them with soap),

Why shouldn't you clean with soap? If not soap, what then?

You've inspired me to pull out my mokapot and try again!

This Just In!!
Mokapot Goes Main Stream

The latest Target television commercial features a Bialetti Brikka "espresso maker".



It is now official… from now on all mokapot post must feature this logo.

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by coffeemonkey

Why shouldn't you clean with soap? If not soap, what then?

I don't really know how important the "no soap" admonition really is. That could be more conventional wisdom which is just silly, like the "never let french press coffee sit or it'll go bitter" (it doesn't).

The chatter sez that there is some kind of metallic flavor with new aluminum pots that goes away after you use them for a while (and don't soap them clean). Theory is that coffee oils lingering in the upper pot seal the aluminum and protect coffee flavor. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't. (shrug-shrug)



As for me, I rinse lower, filter and upper with hot water after use. If I can see any grunge hanging on after a hot rinse I'll wipe them "clean" with a paper towel. Oils remain? Sure.

If the upper pot or filter start to look grungy (not too often) or smell anything except good (not too often) then I wash the whole shooting match with hot water, soap and a soft dishcloth or sponge (nothing that would scratch or scour the metal finish). Oils remain? No, except inside the centerpost. Taste suddenly suffers? I think not.

Your sense of taste may say otherwise.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by tzaddi

This Just In!!
Mokapot Goes Main Stream.

Thats a great price on the Brikka!

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

I don't really know how important the "no soap" admonition really is. That could be more conventional wisdom which is just silly, like the "never let french press coffee sit or it'll go bitter" (it doesn't).

The chatter sez that there is some kind of metallic flavor with new aluminum pots that goes away after you use them for a while (and don't soap them clean). Theory is that coffee oils lingering in the upper pot seal the aluminum and protect coffee flavor. Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't. (shrug-shrug)


As for me, I rinse lower, filter and upper with hot water after use. If I can see any grunge hanging on after a hot rinse I'll wipe them "clean" with a paper towel. Oils remain? Sure.

If the upper pot or filter start to look grungy (not too often) or smell anything except good (not too often) then I wash the whole shooting match with hot water, soap and a soft dishcloth or sponge (nothing that would scratch or scour the metal finish). Oils remain? No, except inside the centerpost. Taste suddenly suffers? I think not.

Your sense of taste may say otherwise.

Dish soap MAY affect the taste because it leaves a residue and cuts the oils (basically it does what its supposed to do). At my shops we NEVER use dish soap on any of our coffee pots, or porta-filters. We use a coffee soap called PuroCaffe wich will not leave any residue and gets all the build up off with little or no scrubbing. We always re-season the portafilters by pulling a couple shots of espresso on each group first.

The moka pots do need seasoning... the more you use it the better it tastes (like a cast-iron skillet). I usually tell my customers buying mokas that they should brew and toss the first two or three pots of coffee.

That being said, my mother has used dish soap on her moka for years and years with no second thought. As Moo stated above dont use any abrasive cleansers (SOS, Softscrub, etc) on your mokapot.

You shouldnt put them in the dishwasher however.

[chris45set]

OK, the cigars weren't enough of an obsession / drain on the budget.
Last night I bought the Moka pot pictured above from Target (it is NOT a Brikka, but a 6 cup Moka).
Just brewed the first pot with whatever beans we have in the kitchen, using a whirly-blade grinder (it's the only one I currently have, taking baby steps here).
Sipping on it now, and while I understand this is the first batch out of a new device, it's very interesting to note the difference between the Moka coffee and the coffee from the Capresso brewer I usually drink (same beans, same grinder).
This brew is better than anything I managed to get out of the French Press I had years ago, this could get very interesting.
There is some underlying bitterness, but there is also a whole new palette of flavors at work here.
I do have one question, I pulled the pot off of the heat as soon as the flow of coffee changed from liquid to foam, as I didn't want to overcook it. Should I have left it for a bit longer, to let it develop its own "spume"?
It is still too hot to open to see how much water is left in the "little tank".
The top section filled to within less than an inch of the top, so I know I was getting close.
I also tried to not over apply the heat, started with the electric stove burner on Med, and dialed down just slightly when the coffee began to flow.
I know I am asking a pile of questions, but I am still new to this process.
Thanks for indulging my ignorance, and I look forward to what this little beastie can produce once it "cures".

Chris