Padron 3000 Maduro

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I know what you mean about the dryness...

"Dryness" is a sign of improperly grown tobacco. Unripe tobacco leaves contain unripe tannins, which leads to a sensation of "courseness" on the palate. Same as in wine.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

"Dryness" is a sign of improperly grown tobacco. Unripe tobacco leaves contain unripe tannins, which leads to a sensation of "courseness" on the palate. Same as in wine.

That's interesting...I've never heard that before. It seems odd that it would be an issue with padrons, however, as I understand them to have one of the best quality control reputations out there. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Bruins Fan]

I used to smoke them when I could get them for around three bucks, but when my B+M went up close to seven no way am I paying that for a yard gar at best.

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by BigCat

That's interesting...I've never heard that before. It seems odd that it would be an issue with padrons, however, as I understand them to have one of the best quality control reputations out there. Thanks for pointing it out.

All I can tell you is that I used to be a big fan of Padron in mid '90s, even late '90s, they used to be my go to smokes to the point of chasing early release Annis and paying up to $25-30 per stick (in then dollars). Re-visited them in the past few years and well, fully agree with the review Steve posted, they seem to be bland and not as "quality" as I remember them in years past. Plus quality is not the same, IMO.

The tannin part is correct, ask any grower, that dryness your palate experiences is the feel tannins impart and the riper they are, the "softer" they feel. You can only cure tobacco leaves so much to soften the tannins, but when they are picked unripe there is not much one can do.

As to your point of "quality" control, like grapes, tobacco depends on weather in a particular year and no amount of work on the farm field can substitute for the old fashioned sun's influence (plus air quality). For example, in years like 2004, 2006 and 2008 (just some recent vintages) the weather simply did not co-operate and crops (grapes and tobacco) were picked on the "green" side (meaning unripe). Very few farmers were willing to do what's right and thin the crops a lot to allow what was left to grow to proper ripeness. Say what you want against the likes of Pepin, just one example and there a re others, but I have yet to taste any of his products that gave me an impression of unripe tobacco, main reason I am a big fan (on top of loving Nicaraguan leaf, my mainstay these days).

Some cigar makers simply get complacent, some don't.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

For example, in years like 2004, 2006 and 2008 (just some recent vintages) the weather simply did not co-operate and crops (grapes and tobacco) were picked on the "green" side (meaning unripe). Very few farmers were willing to do what's right and thin the crops a lot to allow what was left to grow to proper ripeness.

That's a very interesting point I hadn't considered. I wasn't doubting your first post, btw. It certainly sounds like you have experience on your side. Thanks for the lesson.

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by BigCat

That's a very interesting point I hadn't considered. I wasn't doubting your first post, btw. It certainly sounds like you have experience on your side. Thanks for the lesson.

I know you weren't doubting my post, I simply provided more facts. Weather is always a big factor with any agricultural crop and both grapes and tobacco are more "sensitive" to show the effects as there is no margin for error.

Another point to add is that reading through TNs posted on the board it is clear to me that a number of people mistake "pepper" notes for unripe tannins in some cigars. 5 Vegas Miami blend is one of them, what people think is "pepper hit" is actually very nasty, green and seriously unripe tannins. Smoke one and see for yourself.

I would not put Padron in that same group. Are they unripe to the point of being bad? Not in my opinion. But they also could use some more ripeness to reach the levels of pleasure they used to deliver in the '90s. I keep buying a few Padrons in different vitolas from time to time to see how they are doing, but so far I am in full agreement with the OP in the thread, they are OK smokes, but that is all there is.

At least the prices are fine and holding steady for a long time by now, and I applaud them for that. I just wish they made just a bit more of an effort.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Another point to add is that reading through TNs posted on the board it is clear to me that a number of people mistake "pepper" notes for unripe tannins in some cigars. 5 Vegas Miami blend is one of them, what people think is "pepper hit" is actually very nasty, green and seriously unripe tannins. Smoke one and see for yourself.

What are a couple of smokes you would say are actually blended to be "peppery" as opposed to just having unripe tannins? I've smoked a few of the 5 vegas miamis. Frankly, the robustos have hit me as being what I would call peppery, though the torpedos have not. Do you think they're rolling the vitolas with different tobacco? I will say that it was several months between my smoking a robusto and my smoking a torpedo, so it could be a different crop.

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by BigCat

What are a couple of smokes you would say are actually blended to be "peppery" as opposed to just having unripe tannins? I've smoked a few of the 5 vegas miamis. Frankly, the robustos have hit me as being what I would call peppery, though the torpedos have not. Do you think they're rolling the vitolas with different tobacco? I will say that it was several months between my smoking a robusto and my smoking a torpedo, so it could be a different crop.

5 Miami Knuckle is just a bad cigar and if you search on my take on the line and this cigar in particular you'll see that I questioned DPG's involvement from the start, which I simply said "No way!" to due to flavor profile (bad, bad, bad) and quality control (not one stick so far has burned without a need to correct). Was told by a number of "experts" that the proof this was a DPG made smoke was the use of DPG boxes. Well, turns out DPG is NOT involved after all and the product is actually his daughter's attempt at making cigars, even CI catalog stopped claiming DPG association after that thread on CA (although last time I checked their web site still did).

So, to tie the above paragraph with your question. DPG, for the most part, blends with a "pepper" character as a target, most Nicaraguan cigars are that way and this is a "signature" of the lend and climate, IMO. But 5 Vegas Miami misses the target by a mile. where most DPG blends start with that pepper hit up front before settling down (while still exhibiting some pepper throughout the rest of the cigar), Miami Knuckle simply assaults your palate with harsh tannin that pretty much "kills" your palate for some time (there is nothing you can eat or drink to soften that, at least in a short amount of time).

Also, take AB Tempus line, some "pepper" in there while his other lines exhibit that same unripe tannin character, think Maxx line, IMO. Main reason I love Tempus while really disliking the rest of his blends.

These are two obvious examples, at least to my palate, there are others. I will be happy to talk about this subject at greater length if you want, but I feel we are making a thread drift and if this subject if of interest someone should open a new thread and not usurp current one. Tannin management is a lengthy subject and an interesting one as it affects a lot. I know what effect tannins have in wine making and wine drinking, and there are great similarities in wine and cigar production.

[Kreth]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

But [Padrons] also could use some more ripeness to reach the levels of pleasure they used to deliver in the '90s.

Do you think that's a product of demand?
Posted via Mobile Device

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by Kreth

Do you think that's a product of demand?
Posted via Mobile Device

Don't know. That said, I can tell you that Padrons simply did not sit on shelves in retail shops in the '90s and now you can find them everywhere. Have no idea what their production numbers were back then versus now, but if the numbers are at a great disparity, then that is your answer.