Wristwatch collectors out there?

[mosesbotbol]

For all of you looking for deals. Check out some of the Russian made watches. Many of the now have ETA movements and are priced really well. Actually, I think ETA owns several of Russians brands (since the last few years).

Daniel Jean Richard is a great value brand. It's Gerrard Peregaux's second watch line.

Mido & Certina are great watch lines that are barely sold in USA, but certainly available. Quite popular in Switzerland and offer excellent value.

[s15driftking]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

For all of you looking for deals. Check out some of the Russian made watches. Many of the now have ETA movements and are priced really well. Actually, I think ETA owns several of Russians brands (since the last few years).

looks like soemone read this latest issue of CA!!!

Jsut messing, they did have a great article on entry level complicated watches though, seems like russian is the way to go for peopel who want an inexpensive automatic.

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by s15driftking

looks like soemone read this latest issue of CA!!!

Jsut messing, they did have a great article on entry level complicated watches though, seems like russian is the way to go for peopel who want an inexpensive automatic.

Some with the exact same movements as the more expensive makers:

cough... *breitling* ...cough

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by wayner123

Some with the exact same movements as the more expensive makers:

cough... *breitling* ...cough

That does not mean much. You can buy a basic ETA movement for like $40. It's the polishing and finish work on the movement that drives the price up. All the blue screws and hand work can add up. The 8 day power reserve costs like $70 alone and needs a lot of finishing to be in a high end watch. Not to say that the profit margin on Breitlings and Rolex would leave a sour taste in anyone that owns one. Watches are one of the most profitable items in sense. World wide shipping and distribution costs nothing. It's all about the sales network and not discounting too much.

I was told that on a stainless watch, that the case, dial, bracelet/strap only account for 10% the watch's cost. Don't take this to the grave, just something I was told a while back.

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

That does not mean much. You can buy a basic ETA movement for like $40. It's the polishing and finish work on the movement that drives the price up. All the blue screws and hand work can add up. The 8 day power reserve costs like $70 alone and needs a lot of finishing to be in a high end watch. Not to say that the profit margin on Breitlings and Rolex would leave a sour taste in anyone that owns one. Watches are one of the most profitable items in sense. World wide shipping and distribution costs nothing. It's all about the sales network and not discounting too much.

I was told that on a stainless watch, that the case, dial, bracelet/strap only account for 10% the watch's cost. Don't take this to the grave, just something I was told a while back.

That percentage sounds about right. Take into account the amount of money spent on promotion alone, it will drive the cost up. I was merely pointing out that even in some of the "high end" watches ,the guts underneath are all the same. Finishing is one thing, but building is another. I mean heck Seiko and Omega even have in-house movements (Seiko's spring drive is just amazing). To me the higher end watch makers need to at least make their own movements. I used to think AP's were grossly overpriced. But after watching their vids that they put out on making of a watch, you come to a new appreciation of the work involved. Where as some of the other makers are just putting a nice face on a $40 movement.

However, a lot of that will change in the future with the news of ETA not making movements available as they once did. A lot of maker's will be forced into in-house movements.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by wayner123

That percentage sounds about right. Take into account the amount of money spent on promotion alone, it will drive the cost up. I was merely pointing out that even in some of the "high end" watches ,the guts underneath are all the same. Finishing is one thing, but building is another. I mean heck Seiko and Omega even have in-house movements (Seiko's spring drive is just amazing). To me the higher end watch makers need to at least make their own movements. I used to think AP's were grossly overpriced. But after watching their vids that they put out on making of a watch, you come to a new appreciation of the work involved. Where as some of the other makers are just putting a nice face on a $40 movement.

However, a lot of that will change in the future with the news of ETA not making movements available as they once did. A lot of maker's will be forced into in-house movements.

I heard a little about ETA scalling back how much and who they well movements to. I thought they wanted to sell their own completed watches?

I have seen our watchsmith take over 8 hours to make one sprocket that was a stock sprocket to start off with! I love the micro engraving by hand.

[s15driftking]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

I was told that on a stainless watch, that the case, dial, bracelet/strap only account for 10% the watch's cost. Don't take this to the grave, just something I was told a while back.

not to my knowledge, a breitling (let's use my watch as an example, so a super avenger) dial is about 400.00 and i know the case is 1100.00, the breacelet is also 550.00....

Now in terms of MFG cost i'm sure its MUCH lower.... and probably about 10%... but as far as the R&D that it cost to get them made... well, that goes down with every watch they make ... right???

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by s15driftking

not to my knowledge, a breitling (let's use my watch as an example, so a super avenger) dial is about 400.00 and i know the case is 1100.00, the breacelet is also 550.00....

Only if you buy them as separate parts similar to any other product such as a car. New car price, $15K, buying each part separately makes it a $50K product, just ask any body shop or insurance claim adjuster.

Breitlings, in particular, can be had at 30-40% discount, I've seen Avengers sell in the $2200-2400 range, but I do have connections in NY. Come to think of it, if you know where to buy, pretty much any watch can be had at a good discount. The only models that sell at or more than MSRP are those that are artificially controlled by manufacturers, some Pateks, one or two Rolexes, and a few more here and there. As an example, I could have had a (Zenith Primero) Rolex Daytona in either gold or gold/SS combo at a steep discount while that same model in all SS sold for 10-20% markup over MSRP.

I was stupid enough not to buy a brand new Zenith Chrono for $1400 when they were still a grey market item, these days they are much more. Instead, I did pull a trigger on a Genta Gefica (Chrono) for that same price, so you win some, you lose some...

[s15driftking]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Only if you buy them as separate parts similar to any other product such as a car. New car price, $15K, buying each part separately makes it a $50K product,

i understand the theory behind that, i wonder if you buy a case, bezel, dial, and strap in a package how much that might cost. that would be the best way to test the idea that those components make up 10% of the actual cost

Breitlings, in particular, can be had at 30-40% discount,

From a B&M i have seen as much as a 30% discount, never 40%... maybe i'm just not that "connected". Though most E-prices are abotu a 30% discount... then again, that is considered Grey market for breitling.

I've seen Avengers sell in the $2200-2400 range

That's a pretty broad statement isnt it?

Is that for a seawolf? super avenger? chrono avenger? steelfish?

Does that mean it has a leather? rubber? or stainless bracelet?

they can be had for 2200-2400 all day logn online for that price. then again that is grey market.

Show me a Super Avenger at that price and I'll buy another today.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by s15driftking

not to my knowledge, a breitling (let's use my watch as an example, so a super avenger) dial is about 400.00 and i know the case is 1100.00, the breacelet is also 550.00....

Now in terms of MFG cost i'm sure its MUCH lower.... and probably about 10%... but as far as the R&D that it cost to get them made... well, that goes down with every watch they make ... right???

I can tell you they are getting dials for a couple of dollars and cases are $25 probably even less. You are looking it at as a consumer, not a maufacturer that is making 800K+ watches a year. They can stamp out cases and mill them like no tomorrow. Tooling for one watch model is probably like 50K and from there they can crank out thousands year. Bracelets are usually done at a bracelet factory and different end links and clasps are designed. It may well be polished somewhere else, but maybe not.

[s15driftking]

Originally Posted by wayner123

Some with the exact same movements as the more expensive makers:

cough... *breitling* ...cough

touche!!! but it is more involved than that.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by s15driftking

looks like soemone read this latest issue of CA!!!

Jsut messing, they did have a great article on entry level complicated watches though, seems like russian is the way to go for peopel who want an inexpensive automatic.

No kidding! Haven't read an issue of CA in years! The best Russian watches to get are the fairly simple aviator ones. There is a big titanium industry in Russia, so a titanium case could be nice too.

We just got a wicked cool Zenith Power Reserve Calendar watch in Gold. I think it has moon phase too. We are having it fixed by our watchsmith. Very thin gold case. Not kind of watch I would buy, but would like to be in the position to afford one... It's not winding, probably a bearing issue on swing mass or spring issue.