Electrician question?

[Rabidsquirrel]

I'm on the Commercial/Industrial side, but I think I can answer a few questions. From what I've seen, AFCI/GFCI breaks are about $30 plus, while a GFCI receptacle is around $10.

Depending on the AHJ and if the house is being sold FHA, he may or may not have to replace any of the receptacles. You may be able to get that written into your agreement that the owner has to either fix it himself or give you money to do it.

2008 code requires {210.12 (B)} in Dwelling Units that :

All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit

Underlining indicates a change in the code. Now, this only applies to new construction, and only if your area has adopted the code yet. I know Philly is still going off the 2005 code. There are various exceptions, but I doubt anyone is interested in them.

nth edit: I doubt the face plate will be grounded, as per one of the posts about. With the age of the house I'm guessing cloth romex was used, and no pipe or BX.

[BORIStheBLADE]

The new use of the arc faults is a good thing for new homes.It will help with fires and stuff. I got a chance to play with them in some high end homes.

I wouldn't dare try to put them in a house wired already.


To the OP. If you are worried about this electrical work you might want to think about looking at other homes. I don't know if you have a pending offer on this place , but its a thought. You can tell your realtor to see if he or she can find places with an better electrical system.

I don't know how much money or if any the owner will take off the house price. Its still worth a shot to see if they will take less.

If your going to spend money on having an electrician come by and upgrade your service to 100 amp and ground all or some plugs its going to add some more money to the mix.

Where I live service changes go for about $2,000.00 just alone.

[BigFrank]

Originally Posted by BORIStheBLADE

Where I live service changes go for about $2,000.00 just alone.

Close to that here. 1500-1750 for a 100amp upgrade in server. But then again most houses around here are very old and usually require a little extra work.

[fpkjr]

Originally Posted by BORIStheBLADE

The new use of the arc faults is a good thing for new homes.It will help with fires and stuff. I got a chance to play with them in some high end homes.

I wouldn't dare try to put them in a house wired already.

Boris,
As I undrestand the NEC the use of the Arc Fault was brought about because tofthe wiring in older homes!
While I feel it's a great idea to use them in new home construction I think the statement I quoted would cause more harm.
This is a FYI post -
Check this quote from Mike Holt!
"Studies have shown that over 60 percent of fires are from causes in the fixed wiring, switches, receptacle outlets and lighting fixtures that are part of the fixed electrical system of a residence." In other words, AFCI's are focused on detecting arcing and preventing fires in an area where the risk is significant.

Arcing faults often occur in damaged or deteriorated wires and cords. Some causes of damaged and deteriorated wiring include:

puncturing of wire insulation from picture hanging or cable staples,
poorly installed outlets or switches,
cords caught in doors or under furniture,
furniture pushed against plugs in an outlet,
natural aging,
and cord exposure to heat vents and sunlight."

Several years ago in a yearend class we spent a good deal of time on these
Sorry for dragging this up
With respect
Frank

[BORIStheBLADE]

Originally Posted by fpkjr

Boris,
As I undrestand the NEC the use of the Arc Fault was brought about because tofthe wiring in older homes!
While I feel it's a great idea to use them in new home construction I think the statement I quoted would cause more harm.
This is a FYI post -
Check this quote from Mike Holt!
"Studies have shown that over 60 percent of fires are from causes in the fixed wiring, switches, receptacle outlets and lighting fixtures that are part of the fixed electrical system of a residence." In other words, AFCI's are focused on detecting arcing and preventing fires in an area where the risk is significant.

Arcing faults often occur in damaged or deteriorated wires and cords. Some causes of damaged and deteriorated wiring include:

puncturing of wire insulation from picture hanging or cable staples,
poorly installed outlets or switches,
cords caught in doors or under furniture,
furniture pushed against plugs in an outlet,
natural aging,
and cord exposure to heat vents and sunlight."

Several years ago in a yearend class we spent a good deal of time on these
Sorry for dragging this up
With respect
Frank

No insult taken.
I understand what they are good for and glad they have something for this, but......... Arc faults are ONLY supposed to be wired to receptacle circuits if I remember correctly. So with that, almost all older homes shared lights on the recept circuits.

I had a friend lose his house because a light was plugged in behind a couch and the couch was jammed up against it. He told me the firemen said thats were the fire started. That kind of stuff is scary.

The reason why I said I wouldn't dare do it is because I had to spend hours trying to trouble shoot this one bedroom in this new home and one of the other electricians wired it to the lights too. It took me a while to figure it out.

[rack04]

Since I got so many great responses with my first question I decide to throw another one your way.

I'm trying to properly ground my roof mounted antenna. I have come up with the following two options:

1.) Run #10 thhn stranded wire from the antenna mast to the coax grounding block at the point of entry. Run #10 thhn stranded wire from the coax grounding block to a driven 4 ft copper ground rod. Run #6 thhn stranded wire from the 4 ft copper ground rod to the system ground.

2.) Run #10 thhn stranded wire from the antenna mast to the 2" rigid riser. Run #10 thhn stranded wire from the coax grounding block to a driven 4 ft copper ground rod. Run #6 thhn stranded wire from the 4 ft copper ground rod to the system ground. Similar to the picture below except I will be making the connection to the rigid riser above the roof jack.



Option 2 is preferred because I wont have to run the #10 thhn stranded wire along the roof, around the awning, and down the brick wall to connect to the grounding block. Thoughts?

[Old Sailor]

Originally Posted by rack04

Since I got so many great responses with my first question I decide to throw another one your way.

I'm trying to properly ground my roof mounted antenna. I have come up with the following two options:

1.) Run #10 thhn stranded wire from the antenna mast to the coax grounding block at the point of entry. Run #10 thhn stranded wire from the coax grounding block to a driven 4 ft copper ground rod. Run #6 thhn stranded wire from the 4 ft copper ground rod to the system ground.

2.) Run #10 thhn stranded wire from the antenna mast to the 2" rigid riser. Run #10 thhn stranded wire from the coax grounding block to a driven 4 ft copper ground rod. Run #6 thhn stranded wire from the 4 ft copper ground rod to the system ground. Similar to the picture below except I will be making the connection to the rigid riser above the roof jack.



Option 2 is preferred because I wont have to run the #10 thhn stranded wire along the roof, around the awning, and down the brick wall to connect to the grounding block. Thoughts?

Option 2

fyi - http://members.cox.net/pc-usa/station/ground3.htm

Originally Posted by BORIStheBLADE

No insult taken.
I understand what they are good for and glad they have something for this, but......... Arc faults are ONLY supposed to be wired to receptacle circuits if I remember correctly. So with that, almost all older homes shared lights on the recept circuits.

We put AFCI breakers on lights, Recpts, smoke detectprs, basically anything not GFCI protected or a dedicated circuit (fridge, micro, washer, ect.) this is code in our area and I believe NEC also