What is a very good Espresso machine

[germantown rob]

Originally Posted by floydpink

My Gaggia has the 3 way solenoid but they insist it will kill the pump if you backflush. Not sure, but not taking any chances.

This is from sweet maria's..."The 3-Way Valve: this does cost more. Do you need a 3-way valve to make perfect espresso? No! But it means the machine automatically releases high tank pressure so the "puck" is drier after extraction, and you can clean the machine by backflushing. Note that Gaggia USA does not officially support backflushing because it may splash hot water out the release valve into the drip tray. This is a legal concern - you can backflush but you do it at your own risk."

from their gaggia pagehttp://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.gaggia.php.

[floydpink]

well, if someone could explain the benefit of backflushing opposed to a good cleaning and descaling, I might try to figure it out.

I guess I am under the impression that as long as my machine is performing great, like it is, I'm leaving it alone.

Edit: Never mind, my OCD got the best of me and I just ordered a blind filter from WLL and will be backflushing.

How often is this normally done???

Last question:

I keep quite a good supply of Urnex Dezcale around. Is this the right stuff to use on a backflush??

[germantown rob]

Originally Posted by floydpink

well, if someone could explain the benefit of backflushing opposed to a good cleaning and descaling, I might try to figure it out.

I guess I am under the impression that as long as my machine is performing great, like it is, I'm leaving it alone.

Edit: Never mind, my OCD got the best of me and I just ordered a blind filter from WLL and will be backflushing.

How often is this normally done???

Last question:

I keep quite a good supply of Urnex Dezcale around. Is this the right stuff to use on a backflush??

After every shot some grounds and oils are staying up in your group head. The same stuff that is left behind after a shot in the cup that dries and needs a sponge to clean. I backflush after every time I am done a session, not if I am coming back in 1/2 hour but it only takes 45 minutes or less for coffee oils to go rancid and I don't want that off taste to be added to my next cup. So I will backflush 2-4 times a day with just water.

The Urnex Dezcale is not what you want to use but Urnex makes other products designed for backflushing. Not sure they are that different since I believe they all use citric acid in different proportions. Joe Glow seems to be the mildest of the detergents and I might try some of that out but right now I use Urnex tabs right now once a week, thats a lie since I have done it twice in 9 days but my second cleaning came out very clean so I jumped the gun. A shop would do it every night, a real clean freak may also do it every night but once a week will keep things clean with hot water backflushes done often.


I will post some links later on some more exact info.

[floydpink]

Originally Posted by germantown rob

This is from sweet maria's..."The 3-Way Valve: this does cost more. Do you need a 3-way valve to make perfect espresso? No! But it means the machine automatically releases high tank pressure so the "puck" is drier after extraction, and you can clean the machine by backflushing. Note that Gaggia USA does not officially support backflushing because it may splash hot water out the release valve into the drip tray. This is a legal concern - you can backflush but you do it at your own risk."

from their gaggia pagehttp://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.gaggia.php.

Not to be argumentative, but I just read this and thought other Gaggia owners may find it interesting..

The New Baby does not have external tubes as your diagram suggests. the solenoid mounts to the group housing and has internal channels to the boiler and group (and below to drip). The solenoid on the new baby is easily clogged so the VERY minimal benefit that might be had from back flushing is not worthwhile in my opinion... I would prefer to run water forward through the group

[floydpink]

In any event, I ordered the blind filter and cleaner and will try backflushing.

It takes a bit of time, but I have found great benefits from taking off the shower screen and cleaning it by hand as well as sometimes taking out the two hex bolts and removing the group head, soaking it, and really giving the whole grouphead a good cleaning that I'm not sure a backflush will achieve.

I have no idea about other machines, but after studying diagrams and getting out my tools, I am beginning to get very familiar with all the inner parts of the Gaggia.

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by floydpink

In any event, I ordered the blind filter and cleaner and will try backflushing.

It takes a bit of time, but I have found great benefits from taking off the shower screen and cleaning it by hand as well as sometimes taking out the two hex bolts and removing the group head, soaking it, and really giving the whole grouphead a good cleaning that I'm not sure a backflush will achieve.

I have no idea about other machines, but after studying diagrams and getting out my tools, I am beginning to get very familiar with all the inner parts of the Gaggia.

As rancid as espresso becomes without cleaning the dispersion screen for a month or so I "imagine" the route thru the solenoid channel becomes befouled in the same short order. Once you see backflush grunge ooze into the drip pan you'll decide you don't want it in your machine.

If Gaggia has a warning, be careful; you don't want hot acidic oils squirting into your eyeball. The Oscar has a baffle in the pan the prevents a direct squirt onto a nearby human.

[germantown rob]

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

you don't want hot acidic oils squirting into your eyeball.

I don't think many people now a days put acid in their eye balls much any more. Ohh, you mean citric acid, never mind.

I second removing the entire group head for cleaning regularly. It gives you the opportunity to inspect all of the gaskets, and replace them if necessary rather than experiencing a failure. Planned down time is always a more positive experience than unexpected down time. I keep at least one of each gasket on hand for just that purpose. I wish I could chime in on the matter of back flushing, but I have no experience with the Gaggia's

[floydpink]

Lots of controversy on the subject of backflushing for sure.

One thing about the solenoid drain is the fact that the liquid is draining, NOT going into my cup, so however nasty it is, I won't be drinking it.

I'm always amazed at how much gunk comes from behind the grouphead when removed and normally soak it then brush it real good at least once a month.

Good points about keeping extra gaskets, and I should probably do that.

I ordered the stuff to backflush, so I am going to do it, but if my Gaggia dies an early death, you guys owe me an Oscar or something.

[germantown rob]

Originally Posted by floydpink

Not to be argumentative, but I just read this and thought other Gaggia owners may find it interesting..

The New Baby does not have external tubes as your diagram suggests. the solenoid mounts to the group housing and has internal channels to the boiler and group (and below to drip). The solenoid on the new baby is easily clogged so the VERY minimal benefit that might be had from back flushing is not worthwhile in my opinion... I would prefer to run water forward through the group

I have been looking at what folks at CG and HB have to say on the matter and well I got nothing but controversy. I think you made an important point about how easy it is to remove the group head and clean it that way and those that say not to backflush point this out. Those that say to do backflushing point out what a 3 way solenoid is, how it works, and it is cheap to replace. If Gaggia's solenoid can't handle it then it will fail by just normal use anyway. The point of the 3 way is to remove pressure after a shot is done, in other words it is backflushing oily residue and grinds. If you have ever ground to fine and chocked your machine you in essence just backflushed it again with oily gritty back flow. Every post I saw saying not to do it does not supply any real info as to why not, no diagrams, not failures (other than I backflused a few times and now I have this ___ problem). People that say to backflush with a 3 way solenoid do supply all the needed info on why, how, diagrams, etc.

I am not saying you should do this, you keep a clean machine your way and that works for you. There is a chance that since you have not done this before you might push a buildup of crude right into your solenoid and make it fail. This would suck and without a back up solenoid may keep you from liquid gold till you replace it. If you choose not to do this the cleaner you bought should work fine for all you're cleaning needs so it won't be wasted.

I would like to add that the Silvia has the same controversy with far more people saying backflushing should be done and so forth.