You know things are bad when

[Da Klugs]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

Yah, we'll be making programatic cuts (i.e., departments gone bye bye) soon here at VT when we are asked to absorb the latest in a continuum of budget cuts.

Tenured faulty can be fired when their departments are cut.

Sweet.

All the while, the f****ng banks with their overpaid f**k*ng idiot millionaire f***ing c****u**er CEOs get handouts on my go&da*m*$^ f*c***g dime while they're f*****g partying and having a great old time.

But I'm not bitter.

No defense for the Banks and Car companies. Broken for different reasons. Banks have broken their promises to every American and it is going to accelerate the breaking/modification of promises to the rest of us on a variety of fronts. Those of us saving on our own for retirement have already taken the hit. The organized private and public sector pain is on it's way. Maybe it was genius the Feds spending all the Social security trust funds along the way. At least we got something for it. They would be down 50% now.

If you look at the private sector, they have been reducing/eliminating benefits and pensions for retirees over the past 30 years. Economic necessity due to unsustainable costs or management incompetence doesn't really matter, it has happened. The money to pay has to come from somewhere. The personal version of the public sector.. social security, keeps raising the age for eligibility and full benefits in effect reducing benefits for decades. What about the public version?

I think teachers, government at all levels, etc. salaries and more specifically benefits have improved/not declined relative to the rest of the economy in the past 25 years. Just a comment on relative change in the period not on the value or validity of the promise to pay these things. Declining real estate values will put this issue in the cross hairs at the local level. When the citizens of the communities served have so much less benefits and retirement than the public employees that their taxes support, sooner or later it will become an issue when limits of voter approved taxation are reached. When your house value keeps declining, paying an ever increasing tax on it puts homeowners in the same state of mind you have about bankers and car executives.

The income and property tax declines I think will finally force the issue of retirement and benefit costs to become a center stage issue in our public schools. Unless there is a massive ongoing federal subsidy, if the economy continues like this for any extended period there will be pressure to decrease pensions and health care benefits. Good news for current employees is that it may help salaries. bad news is broken promises for retirees. We pay 2.4% of the "Market Value" of our homes here in property taxes. In tight times where what has become lavish benefits relative to most private sector workers, like fully paid health insurance and 80% of your final salary for life after 30 years service may not be issues homeowners want to pony up more to continue.

It's a time when many in the non unionized private sector are being asked to work more and or get paid less to help companies survive. It's not unreasonable for those in the public sector to be asked to do the same vs forcing staff reductions in lieu of everyone keeping their jobs at a bit less pay and benefits. It's the same problem you see with private sector unions not wanting to give up any $$$ so things either get outsourced, downsized or closed down if the numbers don't work in a different context. Unless you get a temporary reprieve by getting bailed out for .... a year or 2.

I have always been curious why there has been so little public comment about Federal, State and Local payroll, benefit and retirement costs when it makes up 30+% of the total workforce. We all need to share in the pain to get out of this mess.

Sorry for the rant bro. Not in any way meant as a shot at those in education or public employment just an opinion on what is coming down the road. When the pie gets smaller and smaller sooner or later either the size of the slices needs to change or someone will reduce the number of slices.

Originally Posted by alley00p

I know where you are coming from! My parents were school teachers in the Detroit Public School system - My Dad for 35 years and my step-mom for 37. I was amazed when I did my Dad's taxes for him one year... I made more as a telephone repairman for Michigan Bell than my parents made together!

The really sad thing is that this country pays more per pupil than any other deleloped country in the world, yet where does the money end up going? You won't find many teachers that are "rich" by any means!

My mom taught kindergarten for 25 years . I think she gets $ 250 a month pension having retired 15 years ago. Where does the money go? Can't speak for elsewhere but mid 80's% goes to teacher salary and benefits here. My wife has her masters degree. She has been a librarian for 15 years. Makes about 1/3 what a teacher makes and pays 1/2 her benefits vs 0 for teachers. My oldest daughter just graduated with her education degree, working in a preschool now and is hoping to find a full time position this fall. There are relative haves and have nots even within the education system today.