Martial Arts - What Do/Did You Study

[12stones]

I love the "this is better than this" and "that is better than that" discussions that take place whenever martial arts are brought up. The fact of the matter is that in a real situation you can win or lose on any given day. One style is not better than the other; it all depends on the practitioner and the situation that takes place. Jiu-jutsu (it is jutsu folks) is just as good as goju-ryu which is just as good as muay thai, etc. It's all about preparation, training, understanding, and ability. And even all of those don't add up to guarantee you won't get your ass kicked by someone untrained; though it does better the odds.

And for those that think TKD sucks, go watch the ROK Marines training in South Korea and see if you want to join them; it's no joke. Again, it's all about the practitioner.

Originally Posted by 12stones

I love the "this is better than this" and "that is better than that" discussions that take place whenever martial arts are brought up. The fact of the matter is that in a real situation you can win or lose on any given day. One style is not better than the other; it all depends on the practitioner and the situation that takes place. Jiu-jutsu (it is jutsu folks) is just as good as goju-ryu which is just as good as muay thai, etc. It's all about preparation, training, understanding, and ability. And even all of those don't add up to guarantee you won't get your ass kicked by someone untrained; though it does better the odds.

And for those that think TKD sucks, go watch the ROK Marines training in South Korea and see if you want to join them; it's no joke. Again, it's all about the practitioner.

I agree with most of this, especially that it is the prep, training, understanding and ability that matter most. I still balk at anyone defending TKD as being on the same level as the others. TKD is, in my and many of my fellow artists opinions, the least rounded defense system out there. That's not to say that it isn't a good way to exercise, build confidence, etc. It just doesn't train you for most practical fighting situations. Most fights, as hardcz mentioned above, happen so fast that it is the muscle memory of years of repetition that will dictate how you perform. And even that has a 50/50 chance of backfiring. When you don't have those years of training in close contact fighting (which TKD certainly does NOT focus on), you don't have what it takes for 90% of fights. Seriously, 90% of fights end up on the ground. I have a great jump spinning hook kick, but it's worthless when I'm tangled up with someone or on the ground...

[tsolomon]

3 years of Shorin-ryu. Damaged my knee sparring and had to give it up.

[Kreth]

Originally Posted by 12stones

And for those that think TKD sucks, go watch the ROK Marines training in South Korea and see if you want to join them; it's no joke. Again, it's all about the practitioner.

I agree, the ROK Marines are pretty hardcore. I think most of the impression that TKD sucks comes from the Mcdojo rank mills that seem so prevalent.

Originally Posted by Kreth

I agree, the ROK Marines are pretty hardcore. I think most of the impression that TKD sucks comes from the Mcdojo rank mills that seem so prevalent.

Don't forget the BS "martial arts" competitions where they dance, jump, spin 3 times in the air and land to the splits but it's cool cause it's too the music and they punch and scream at the end.

These people who put on these shows are not showing any true martial skill, they're doing gymnastics and calling it martial arts. Sure it's cool you can jump and flip... you're just looking for a way to make you not look like a pansey.. hell even though they played with barbies, *the boys* they're straight because they do martial arts, not gymnastics...

Anways, if you really know what to look for, you can tell when a punch is just a punch, and when it actually has power behind it.

[12stones]

Originally Posted by Drat

I agree with most of this, especially that it is the prep, training, understanding and ability that matter most. I still balk at anyone defending TKD as being on the same level as the others. TKD is, in my and many of my fellow artists opinions, the least rounded defense system out there. That's not to say that it isn't a good way to exercise, build confidence, etc. It just doesn't train you for most practical fighting situations. Most fights, as hardcz mentioned above, happen so fast that it is the muscle memory of years of repetition that will dictate how you perform. And even that has a 50/50 chance of backfiring. When you don't have those years of training in close contact fighting (which TKD certainly does NOT focus on), you don't have what it takes for 90% of fights. Seriously, 90% of fights end up on the ground. I have a great jump spinning hook kick, but it's worthless when I'm tangled up with someone or on the ground...

Drat, the thing is that TKD involves most of the technical principles that any other standing martial arts has too. As Kreth says below, it's the mcdojo that's made it seem like a worthless martial art. If, however, you know and understand the principles within your art, then you can apply it whether it's karate, TKD, judo or what. These mcdojos have everyone thinking that TKD is only about the high-flying kicks and so many people write it off as a viable martial art. But, guess what, there's other kicks and punches in there too. It's not the art that invalidates its viability, it's how it's being sold to the masses that's diluted it. TKD practitioners can have muscle memory just like anyone else. Again, it's how they train, know and understand the principles within their art that makes the difference.

Originally Posted by Kreth

I agree, the ROK Marines are pretty hardcore. I think most of the impression that TKD sucks comes from the Mcdojo rank mills that seem so prevalent.

Yep, totally.

Thoughts on Jeet Kune Do?

I've only read a little about it, but understand that Bruce was very much into adapting whatever styles that work for an individual. I know that some followers have adopted it as a "style" and that others try to keep to Bruce's idea that it is not so much a style, but that it is almost a philosophy. Take the best of what is out there and use what works for you.

Is that a fair analysis?

Originally Posted by 12stones

Drat, the thing is that TKD involves most of the technical principles that any other standing martial arts has too. As Kreth says below, it's the mcdojo that's made it seem like a worthless martial art. If, however, you know and understand the principles within your art, then you can apply it whether it's karate, TKD, judo or what. These mcdojos have everyone thinking that TKD is only about the high-flying kicks and so many people write it off as a viable martial art. But, guess what, there's other kicks and punches in there too. It's not the art that invalidates its viability, it's how it's being sold to the masses that's diluted it. TKD practitioners can have muscle memory just like anyone else. Again, it's how they train, know and understand the principles within their art that makes the difference.

Yep, totally.

Very valid point. I guess my experience has only been with the McDojos. I have come across too many TKD blackbelts who have proven absolutely NO actual ability to defend themselves in a practical fighting situation. I guess the real point of it is that anybody with enough knowledge of what real fighting is like will never get into one. That's an ego boost for me considering I've been in 3 "real" fights in the 20 years that I've been training...

I agree that most styles are of equality, and the performance is more based on the practicioner.

Except Wado Riu and TKD. Wado rules, TKD drools. 'nuff said.

Ironically, my only multiple attacker situations all occured before any formal training. Having come from a fairly rough part of a fairly rough industrial town in the '80s you learned to play in the neighbourhoods through a "trial of fire". I went for months at a time where you would be expected to fight someone at least once a day. As I moved around alot, even within that city, I was always the "new kid". So, everyone wanted to know where you sat in the pecking order. Little did they know that this very tendency was giving me an unfair advantage. As I was always the new kid, noone had to fight as much as I did. With repetition comes compentence.

I only type this as its fun to tell stories from the past (I guess that's a sign of getting old?). I don't want to fight any of you....go pick on a newbie!

[Kreth]

While we're telling war stories...
A few years ago my wife (gf at the time) and I were out at the bars, and some moron made a rude comment to one of her friends. I called him on it, words were exchanged, and he leans over real serious-like and says, "Look man, I've been kick-boxing for 3 years. I can kick you in the side of the head before you even move. You don't want none of this."
I said, "Gee, I've only been doing Japanese martial arts for a little over a decade. It's gonna be a shame when I snap your knee."
My wife's friend got an apology.

Before or after the knee snapping?

[Kreth]

Originally Posted by kayaker

Before or after the knee snapping?

Before. I've found most of those guys are like the little chihuahua that barks his ass off. If he was gonna kick me, he would have. Since I didn't back down (and in fact raised his bet) he did...

I think we can summarize that we are, indeed, all tough guys here.

[foomanto]

Originally Posted by 12stones

I love the "this is better than this" and "that is better than that" discussions that take place whenever martial arts are brought up. The fact of the matter is that in a real situation you can win or lose on any given day. One style is not better than the other; it all depends on the practitioner and the situation that takes place. Jiu-jutsu (it is jutsu folks) is just as good as goju-ryu which is just as good as muay thai, etc. It's all about preparation, training, understanding, and ability. And even all of those don't add up to guarantee you won't get your ass kicked by someone untrained; though it does better the odds.

And for those that think TKD sucks, go watch the ROK Marines training in South Korea and see if you want to join them; it's no joke. Again, it's all about the practitioner.

Been to Korea and watched the ROK Marines train almost everyday that i was there and they train hard. i took Okinawan Kempo for about 3 years when i was stationed over there.

[12stones]

Originally Posted by foomanto

Been to Korea and watched the ROK Marines train almost everyday that i was there and they train hard. i took Okinawan Kempo for about 3 years when i was stationed over there.

Who did you study with over there? I knew Butch Spain and got to train with him a few times. I got to meet Odo Sensei once while there too.