US Embassy in Cuba

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by elderboy02

I really, really, really want to visit Cuba. Lift the dang embargo already.

We do business with freaking China... why not Cuba?

Because China didn't nationalize (steal) billions of dollars worth of U.S. businesses and property; Cuba did.

[Habana Mike]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

Because China didn't nationalize (steal) billions of dollars worth of U.S. businesses and property; Cuba did.

Well, not yet though they've certainly bought a lot of debt that will come due one day.....

And by the way it's really not terribly difficult to travel to Cuba for anyone under an OFAC general license, especially now.

Glad to answer any questions on this as I've researched it fairly extensively.

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by Habana Mike

Well, not yet though they've certainly bought a lot of debt that will come due one day.....

And by the way it's really not terribly difficult to travel to Cuba for anyone under an OFAC general license, especially now.

Glad to answer any questions on this as I've researched it fairly extensively.

Buying debt and nationalizing American banks and businesses are two very different things. The U.S. government issues bonds for people and entities to buy, legally. Nationalization is just theft. It's the communist way: steal from those who produce to pay those who don't in order to maintain dictatorial power. While China is communist too, they're not Stalinists; they want to engage with the world and conduct business by the rules. Capitalism, on the other hand, is the only moral economic system because it rewards effort, punishes sloth and demands that people conduct business voluntarily, as only a free people can.

[jledou]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

they want to engage with the world and conduct business by the rules.

Along this front I will just say that's not always the case.

[Habana Mike]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

Buying debt and nationalizing American banks and businesses are two very different things. The U.S. government issues bonds for people and entities to buy, legally. Nationalization is just theft. It's the communist way: steal from those who produce to pay those who don't in order to maintain dictatorial power. While China is communist too, they're not Stalinists; they want to engage with the world and conduct business by the rules. Capitalism, on the other hand, is the only moral economic system because it rewards effort, punishes sloth and demands that people conduct business voluntarily, as only a free people can.

True point though I was suggesting that one day it might happen.

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by Habana Mike

True point though I was suggesting that one day it might happen.

Perhaps, but as I understand it, Britain owns more of us than the Chinese. When the time comes, I'm sure that the debt will be redeemed according to our rules so I'm not too worried.

[Habana Mike]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

Perhaps, but as I understand it, Britain owns more of us than the Chinese. When the time comes, I'm sure that the debt will be redeemed according to our rules so I'm not too worried.

The point above was not about the debt but rather whether nationalization ever happens after the US heavily invests and thousands of companies sets up shop over there, who knows?

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by Habana Mike

Well, not yet though they've certainly bought a lot of debt that will come due one day.....

Originally Posted by Habana Mike

The point above was not about the debt but rather whether nationalization ever happens after the US heavily invests and thousands of companies sets up shop over there, who knows?

According to your post, quoted above, it was; but let 'em try it. The U.S. will just freeze their assets, like we did the Cubans and Iranians and compensate the owners of the nationalized property from that. They have much, much more to lose than we do, and they know this.

[M1903A1]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

Because China didn't nationalize (steal) billions of dollars worth of U.S. businesses and property; Cuba did.

Actually, the Chinese did, in 1949...what finally opened the gates was that they agreed to pay a percentage (around 50% or so?) of the value from that time.

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by jledou

Along this front I will just say that's not always the case.

It's not always the case with Europe, either.

Originally Posted by M1903A1

Actually, the Chinese did, in 1949...what finally opened the gates was that they agreed to pay a percentage (around 50% or so?) of the value from that time.

Well, there ya go; they offered to make good, at least partially, while the Cuban "government" continues in their attempts to extort us further. At least the ChiComs made better effort along those lines than most debtors in U.S. bankruptcy court. Of course they had to, communism as an economic system doesn't work; you eventually run out of people who can pay for everything because there is no incentive for people to produce and achieve. All communism is evil; it's the Industrial Age's version of feudalism.