Plume or Bloom vs. Mold

[Loon]

Originally Posted by TheGiver

I'm new here and the original examples pictures now are dead links. So I thought I'd update with some rather epic plume pics.



Flawless cigar


Empty yellow plumed out cello

Plume?!?!?!



Good one.

[CigarNut]

Hi Loon! Welcome back! How was your vacation??

[RevSmoke]

I will concede this, that I cannot tell what is on the cellophane.

Having said that, what follows is not an attempt to start an argument, simply is some observations.

Whatever is growing on the cellophane though, might have nothing to do with what is in the cigar. Cellophane is mildly porous, so something that attached itself/grew on the outside of the cellophane could have passed to the inside. It might be caused from minerals in the water of the humidification system. And, if they changed water types, they may have stopped attaching/growing on the cellophane.

This I can say, in 33 years of smoking cigars, I have never seen plume on a cellophane. In fact, plume on a cigar is a very rare occurrence. I cannot say how many I have seen in my cigars smoking career, but is not very many. And those that did have it, it was an even coated dusting. (I have seen many, many more instances of sugar crystals on aged flake tobacco than I have plume on cigars.)

As has been stated, plume is a crystalline structure.

Flakes of pipe tobacco will grow sugar crystals, and if it is a mixed blend, you will see the crystal growing only on certain leaves (Virginia) that have been pressed into the flake, but even they are not spots (round splotches), but will follow the placements of the particular leaf in the flake. If it is a single crop of Virginia, then possibly you will see crystals over the whole flake.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

What is on the celloph

[bighairlogo]

I know very little about plume but I do know a lot about mold, and from the small pics it looks like mold...I have seen cigars with mineral deposits on it and none of it was inside the cello. Mold will rub off if touched and will grow on anything including the band.

[hazydat620]

I've been reading the posts here and I'm a little confused now.Most of you are saying that plume is dried oils that have left sugar crystal behind, or have they grown them? If a cigar is in cello and has bounced around a humi long enough to develop plume, wouldn't some of those oils make it to the inside of the cello and crystallize over time? After plume develops and your cigar is covered with it, wouldn't it leave a sticky, sugary film on the cello as you remove it? The oils that make it up to the surface of the wrapper that make the plume, all make it there at the same time and start the process of crystallization exactly at the same moment, hence that plume only happens in a even distribution and not spotty?

[cmitch]

Originally Posted by hazydat620

I've been reading the posts here and I'm a little confused now.Most of you are saying that plume is dried oils that have left sugar crystal behind, or have they grown them? If a cigar is in cello and has bounced around a humi long enough to develop plume, wouldn't some of those oils make it to the inside of the cello and crystallize over time? After plume develops and your cigar is covered with it, wouldn't it leave a sticky, sugary film on the cello as you remove it? The oils that make it up to the surface of the wrapper that make the plume, all make it there at the same time and start the process of crystallization exactly at the same moment, hence that plume only happens in a even distribution and not spotty?

Plume is tiny crystals that sparkle in the light so it's not going to leave huge splotches all over the cellophane.

[CigarNut]

Originally Posted by hazydat620

I've been reading the posts here and I'm a little confused now.Most of you are saying that plume is dried oils that have left sugar crystal behind, or have they grown them? If a cigar is in cello and has bounced around a humi long enough to develop plume, wouldn't some of those oils make it to the inside of the cello and crystallize over time? After plume develops and your cigar is covered with it, wouldn't it leave a sticky, sugary film on the cello as you remove it? The oils that make it up to the surface of the wrapper that make the plume, all make it there at the same time and start the process of crystallization exactly at the same moment, hence that plume only happens in a even distribution and not spotty?

I have never had Plume or Bloom on any of my cigars. I have had mold. Mold will get everywhere -- the cigar, the cello and the wood in your humidor. Mold spreads fast and easy.

From what I understand of Plume the crystals are the result of the oils in the cigar. They take a long time to form and do not easily spread/ I am guessing that while is is possible to get crystals on the cello it is less likely as the direct source of the oils is the cigar, not the cello.

[RevSmoke]

Originally Posted by hazydat620

I've been reading the posts here and I'm a little confused now.Most of you are saying that plume is dried oils that have left sugar crystal behind, or have they grown them? If a cigar is in cello and has bounced around a humi long enough to develop plume, wouldn't some of those oils make it to the inside of the cello and crystallize over time? After plume develops and your cigar is covered with it, wouldn't it leave a sticky, sugary film on the cello as you remove it? The oils that make it up to the surface of the wrapper that make the plume, all make it there at the same time and start the process of crystallization exactly at the same moment, hence that plume only happens in a even distribution and not spotty?

While oils will adhere to other things, crystals will not. The oils are coming out of the cigar (and here's where maybe I am not explaining it scientifically), but there is an unusual process that takes place - as the oils come to the surface they form crystals. The oils on the surface do not crystallize. That is why you do not see many cigars with plume. It is almost as if the oils in the cigar are squeezed out as crystals.

And yes, if you have seen real plume, it is dispersed in distribution. It may not be the whole cigar, but I personally have never seen it as spotty as the pictures shown.

[TheGiver]

Well I must admit, this is the most interesting way I have ever entered a new forum. I appreciate everyone's input. I also understand this is a 'msg board' and being new here the immediate reaction is to cry "idiot, you've got mold". I would never enter a forum posting an extremely moldy cigar calling it plume. I do respect the accuracy of information within the board.

RevSmoke, I appreciate your words and I think your assessment seems the most accurate.

Couple of interesting points...

• The humidor contains approx 20K cigars, and only a handful have this substance in/on the cello. No pattern of cigar location within the walk-in or cigar type. No outbreak of mold. Certain aged cigars all feel the same, dirty/dusty/sticky and very yellow cello.
• All these cigars are vintage at 9+yrs
• Nobody can answer why/how IF it was mold, how it can grow on both sides of the cello and not be on the cigar.
• All cigars come out of the cello 100% perfect. Light plume dusting on each one.
• The cigars are flawless and taste amazing. Everything you'd expect from a well kept and aged cigar.

[RevSmoke]

Originally Posted by TheGiver

Well I must admit, this is the most interesting way I have ever entered a new forum. I appreciate everyone's input. I also understand this is a 'msg board' and being new here the immediate reaction is to cry "idiot, you've got mold". I would never enter a forum posting an extremely moldy cigar calling it plume. I do respect the accuracy of information within the board.

RevSmoke, I appreciate your words and I think your assessment seems the most accurate.

Couple of interesting points...

• The humidor contains approx 20K cigars, and only a handful have this substance in/on the cello. No pattern of cigar location within the walk-in or cigar type. No outbreak of mold. Certain aged cigars all feel the same, dirty/dusty/sticky and very yellow cello.
• All these cigars are vintage at 9+yrs
• Nobody can answer why/how IF it was mold, how it can grow on both sides of the cello and not be on the cigar.
• All cigars come out of the cello 100% perfect. Light plume dusting on each one.
• The cigars are flawless and taste amazing. Everything you'd expect from a well kept and aged cigar.

Could this be part of your explanation? These older cigars are the ones exhibiting the "stuff" (whatever it might be), hence they have had opportunity to see the most change in the chemical make-up of whatever when through the humidifier in the humidor.

I am at a loss as to what it is if it isn't mold. Although, I will concede it might be something else. I am not sold that it is plume however as the pattern that it produced on the cellophane is too much like what would be exhibited as mold.

I have a number of cigars which have aged over 9 years. In fact, had a few which were aged 18 years this past November. The cello was no longer yellow, it was brown. The cigar were/are perfect. There is nothing else on the cello, and the cigars exhibit nothing on them as well. The light oily sheen that might have been exhibited by these when younger is also gone.

On another note, have you checked in as a newbie and introduced yourself? You should go do so.

Peace of the Lord be with you.

[hazydat620]

Will CC exhibit " possibly" more plume because these have been rolled with fresher cigars, with more oils to marry through the layers of the cigar? As I understand it NC cigar components are aged prior to rolling and moistened for the process of making a cigar. Can the plume happen in the bundle while aging already and be " washed" away with with moistening, and hence you will never see plume in that cigar.... This is a hobby to me, and I like to educate myself as much as I can about my hobbies. These aren't Q's for the sake of argument, these are Q's that I have come up with while trying to grasp this portion of the hobby. It's just picking the brains of all the collective knowledge here. Maybe I'm reading too much into the whole plume thing, LMK if I am, thanks for the inputs of everyone.

[cmitch]

Considering there are more than 400,000 types of mold in existence, it would be plausible that cellophane could attract certain species because of it's organic make-up. Cellophane is made from processed cellulose, a medium that mold just loves to grow on/in. Here's more about mold: http://www.advancedmoldinspections.c...s_of_mold.html

[xxx_busa]

hungry little buggers


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Bug damage

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[AdamJoshua]

I would hope this is closer to plume or bloom or even dust.

Not a very good pic I was busy trying to light it

[Bax]

Originally Posted by AdamJoshua

I would hope this is closer to plume or bloom or even dust.

Not a very good pic I was busy trying to light it

Looks dusty, but get a magnifying glass and take a closer look yourself. All these arguments/opinions can easily be confirmed.

IMHO that Oliva is 100% mold. I really don't consider 9 years vintage, either. 15-20? That's a different story. The oldest I've had was from 1911, now that was vintage

Just think of mold vs. plume like a winning lottery ticket. 1 in a million cigars develop plume. (I'm not even sure it's that high) Any cigar with a little too much moisture will develop mold. If it's too good to be true, it usually is.

[AdamJoshua]

lol that's why i added the 'even dust' line, it's only a cab from '11 ... haha but boy was it a tasty stick