Sports Cars, Muscle Cars and Customs!

[MACS]

Meh. I prefer my baby. 328 hp, Monaco red seats, and Japanese reliability. When that thing goes tits up (and it will, it's German) bust open the wallet.

Of course, my opinion is MY opinion, and worth just about .





New (much lighter) wheels.

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by MACS

Meh.... When that thing goes tits up (and it will, it's German) bust open the wallet.

Lets leave the tits behind and go right to nuts and bolts. Supercar engines don't come cheap - nifty alloys, insane tolerances, Fuchs wheels and titanium lugnuts all come at a price. And, like anything else over a 40-year run, there are 911's and then there are 911's; some models had problems built in, most not. Within the daily-driving community mechanically informed owners see engines go 300K or more between top end jobs. Double galvanized air-cooled Carreras with Getrag tranny (1984-1989 air/oil cooled 3.2l) are justifiably legendary for solid coachwork, tough engines, bulletproof clutches and magnificent transmissions.

The typical ways to break these older motors are: let them sit undriven in the mistaken belief they're sacred; failure to drive a warmed engine regularly to redline; repeated failure to achieve required operating temperatures before exceeding 3500rpm; and failure to use oil with high levels of zinc and phosphorus additives. The last three items, often ignored by uninformed owners, are killers on valves and valve guides. 14-quarts of 20W-50 in these so-called "air" cooled engines demands at least 15 minutes of low rev driving to protect the tolerances that squeeze big horsepower out of small, lightweight displacement - this is a long wait for a nincompoop. While the reliability of the mills is solid with owners who read the book, a lot of morons will drive the engines to a costly and premature failure. I don't see Porsche failures because they're German but, rather, because owners fail to know their vehicle.

When rebuild time comes around there is good new$ and bad new$ for old Porsche owners.

The bad news - sexy alloy parts are not especially cheap. And if you are going to hire Werner over at Das Porsche Haus (or worse yet a dealer) to do the 15,000 mile tuneup it turns into a $1000 WTF deal.

The good news - those sexy alloy parts don't often fail. Older air-cooled cars were made simply for regular spirited driving on no-limit highways, unimproved roads and track. They allow for a car owner/hobbiest to drop and engine and rebuild without need of a lift. The old fuel-injected air-cooled flat sixes are easy to repair with little more than standard tools, a couple of jackstands and a floor jack.

If a prospective buyer reads the owners manual and enjoys automotive hobbycraft I'd say the scare value of engine work (or recurrent engine failure) is as legend as it is wrong. A once per 15,000 major tune is a six-hour job that costs a couple of hundred bucks if you do it yourself.

The older Porsche is reliable and, wisely owned, not especially expensive. And unlike the new rice burners that easily outrun the older 911's, their value continues to increase.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

The older Porsche is reliable and, wisely owned, not especially expensive. And unlike the new rice burners that easily outrun the older 911's, their value continues to increase.

There are issues with 996's and early 997's with RMS and half shafts, but that's all I ever really read about as major issues on 911's.

What you said is pretty much true with all cars known to be a problem. Non-regularly driven cars and ones not driven to red line are not usually good long term runners. Sports cars are meant to be driven.

It was never Ferrari or Porsche idea to make garage queens.

[schnell987]

Beautiful car! Congratulations!

I had an '86 Targa for many years...daily driver and Driver's Ed car. You can have a blast racing the car on the track over the weekend and then drive to work on Monday. Easily one of the best cars I've ever owned. A true classic.

Loved the rumble of that air cooled exhaust note...amazing handling...and immediate heat (no need to wait for antifreeze to warm up). Enjoy your classic, my friend!

[omowasu]

Moo, your Porsche is beautiful. Ive always wanted an older 911, and I know a few people who are early 911 enthusiasts. There is nothing like driving an older air-cooled Porsche.

[iaMkcK]

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

Lets leave the tits behind and go right to nuts and bolts. Supercar engines don't come cheap - nifty alloys, insane tolerances, Fuchs wheels and titanium lugnuts all come at a price. And, like anything else over a 40-year run, there are 911's and then there are 911's; some models had problems built in, most not. Within the daily-driving community mechanically informed owners see engines go 300K or more between top end jobs. Double galvanized air-cooled Carreras with Getrag tranny (1984-1989 air/oil cooled 3.2l) are justifiably legendary for solid coachwork, tough engines, bulletproof clutches and magnificent transmissions.

The typical ways to break these older motors are: let them sit undriven in the mistaken belief they're sacred; failure to drive a warmed engine regularly to redline; repeated failure to achieve required operating temperatures before exceeding 3500rpm; and failure to use oil with high levels of zinc and phosphorus additives. The last three items, often ignored by uninformed owners, are killers on valves and valve guides. 14-quarts of 20W-50 in these so-called "air" cooled engines demands at least 15 minutes of low rev driving to protect the tolerances that squeeze big horsepower out of small, lightweight displacement - this is a long wait for a nincompoop. While the reliability of the mills is solid with owners who read the book, a lot of morons will drive the engines to a costly and premature failure. I don't see Porsche failures because they're German but, rather, because owners fail to know their vehicle.

When rebuild time comes around there is good new$ and bad new$ for old Porsche owners.

The bad news - sexy alloy parts are not especially cheap. And if you are going to hire Werner over at Das Porsche Haus (or worse yet a dealer) to do the 15,000 mile tuneup it turns into a $1000 WTF deal.

The good news - those sexy alloy parts don't often fail. Older air-cooled cars were made simply for regular spirited driving on no-limit highways, unimproved roads and track. They allow for a car owner/hobbiest to drop and engine and rebuild without need of a lift. The old fuel-injected air-cooled flat sixes are easy to repair with little more than standard tools, a couple of jackstands and a floor jack.

If a prospective buyer reads the owners manual and enjoys automotive hobbycraft I'd say the scare value of engine work (or recurrent engine failure) is as legend as it is wrong. A once per 15,000 major tune is a six-hour job that costs a couple of hundred bucks if you do it yourself.

The older Porsche is reliable and, wisely owned, not especially expensive. And unlike the new rice burners that easily outrun the older 911's, their value continues to increase.

Pipes and cars. I am impressed. FOG.

[milhouse]

Originally Posted by MACS

Meh. I prefer my baby. 328 hp, Monaco red seats, and Japanese reliability. When that thing goes tits up (and it will, it's German) bust open the wallet.

Of course, my opinion is MY opinion, and worth just about .

... and there is alway the guy who comes along to rain on somebodys parade.

Did you really just compare a glorified nissan to a porsche?

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by milhouse

... and there is alway the guy who comes along to rain on somebodys parade.

Did you really just compare a glorified nissan to a porsche?

In all fairness, the "glorified Nissan" with red seats and spindly wheels (along with any number of Subarus or Hyundais) will probably outrun my antique.

Old, slow and heavy as it is in stock condition (barely knocking off zero-60 in six and hardly able to get out of its own way enroute to 163mph) I still look back at least once each time I park it. In spite of what I do the resale value continues to rise. And in spite of what others think, a good example from the era is vastly overbuilt and very hard to break.

I don't know who fixes modern rice burners but my daughter and I can tune a 911, drop an engine, strip an exhaust or knock out a valve lash adjustment in a few hours. And she works cheaper than the dealership!

[mmblz]

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

In all fairness, the "glorified Nissan" with red seats and spindly wheels (along with any number of Subarus or Hyundais) will probably outrun my antique.

"fast acceleration" still doesn't make it a sports car, muscle car, or custom


Love your Porsche! Maybe someday, many years down the road, for me...
In the meantime I love my 98 BMW M Roadster - at least during the summer
No pics. It's black. Use your imagination / google.


I can handle some of the ricers for you and then we can have a cigar.

[poker]

Originally Posted by mmblz

"fast acceleration" still doesn't make it a sports car, muscle car, or custom


Love your Porsche! Maybe someday, many years down the road, for me...
In the meantime I love my 98 BMW M Roadster - at least during the summer
No pics. It's black. Use your imagination / google.


I can handle some of the ricers for you and then we can have a cigar.

Im with you. My '05 M3 hasn't been driven in some time but were restoring back to original in preparation to ship it to Thailand.

[milhouse]

Originally Posted by poker

Im with you. My '05 M3 hasn't been driven in some time but were restoring back to original in preparation to ship it to Thailand.

sweet e46 bro

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by poker

Im with you. My '05 M3 hasn't been driven in some time but were restoring back to original in preparation to ship it to Thailand.

Have you shipped cars there before? Is it already owned by a Thai as personal property in USA. I have done car exports to Switzerland a few times, so just curious. How is the homologation process go in Thailand? I thought they were RHD?

[poker]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Have you shipped cars there before? Is it already owned by a Thai as personal property in USA. I have done car exports to Switzerland a few times, so just curious. How is the homologation process go in Thailand? I thought they were RHD?

Nope, I have never shipped a vehicle to Thailand before. Being that my wife is a Thai citizen I dont think it makes a difference on that import duty & taxation. I hear its high if the vehicle is under 10 years old. But, alas like many things, my wife tells me it largely depends on "who" you know. She has some connections there that I dont question. Like how in the hell she got her replacement birth certificate 3 days after she made the request (That includes transit time).

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by mmblz

"fast acceleration" still doesn't make it a sports car, muscle car, or custom

Word. Mrs. Moo's Jeep runs a 330hp hemi. Not sure what I'd call it but sports- or muscle car do not come to mind.

[milhouse]

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

In all fairness, the "glorified Nissan" with red seats and spindly wheels (along with any number of Subarus or Hyundais) will probably outrun my antique.

[/IMG]

Comparing new technology to old technology is an apples to orange comparison.
So many cars have 300+ hp these days, that alone does not make it a sports car, let alone an iconic one at that.

20 years from now, the Porsche will still be a highly sought after collectible. That Infiniti (and 99% of all cars for that matter) will probably be driven by a high school kid who saved his paper route money and bought his first car.