Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?

[Brlesq]

Originally Posted by Dunkel

This is interesting. I was gifted a #9 Belicoso and smoked it a week or so ago. It was very light in hand and was underpacked IMO. It's draw was like a drinking straw and took me about 45 minutes to smoke that Belicoso. While it tasted good they could have added more tobacco.

Hmmm... Mine are all at least 2 years or older, and I have never experienced that, and the Beli's are my favorite of this blend. Wonder if its a newer one and maybe they've lightened up on the leaf count to make more of them since they are always so scarce?

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Brlesq

Hmmm... Mine are all at least 2 years or older, and I have never experienced that, and the Beli's are my favorite of this blend. Wonder if its a newer one and maybe they've lightened up on the leaf count to make more of them since they are always so scarce?

That's a helluva jump to make. One guy gets an underfilled cigar that slips past QC and all of a sudden your assertion is that the entire line is being intentionally underfilled to increase production?

No, they have not "lightened up on the leaf". The current scarcity is mostly due to a few years of wrapper leaf shortages and other issues, so "lighting up on the (filler) leaf" wouldn't do anything to help those regards. Additionally, any change to the filler would noticeably alter the flavor.

The guys over at DE wouldn't even consider doing anything like that. They aren't going to sacrifice their flagship cigar, or any of their lines for that matter, into crap just to milk an extra 10% production by shorting tobacco. In fact, I can't think of any major manufacturer who would be that foolish and dishonest.

Since they can only make as many LPs as materials allow, you have the alternate products they have released, the Undercrown made from more readily available tobaccos and the Papas Fritas made from the trimmings of the LP line.

As for the cigar Dunkel got, sounds like a "bad" stick. It is a handmade product after all. And while they do catch a lot of the off cigars, sometimes things slip past QC (hey, they're only human too).

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by T.G

No, they have not "lightened up on the leaf". The current scarcity is mostly due to a few years of wrapper leaf shortages and other issues, so "lighting up on the (filler) leaf" wouldn't do anything to help those regards. Additionally, any change to the filler would noticeably alter the flavor.

The guys over at DE wouldn't even consider doing anything like that. They aren't going to sacrifice their flagship cigar, or any of their lines for that matter, into crap just to milk an extra 10% production by shorting tobacco. In fact, I can't think of any major manufacturer who would be that foolish and dishonest.

Since they can only make as many LPs as materials allow, you have the alternate products they have released, the Undercrown made from more readily available tobaccos and the Papas Fritas made from the trimmings of the LP line.

As for the cigar Dunkel got, sounds like a "bad" stick. It is a handmade product after all. And while they do catch a lot of the off cigars, sometimes things slip past QC (hey, they're only human too).

Thanks, Phil.

[Brlesq]

Originally Posted by T.G

That's a helluva jump to make. One guy gets an underfilled cigar that slips past QC and all of a sudden your assertion is that the entire line is being intentionally underfilled to increase production?

No, they have not "lightened up on the leaf". The current scarcity is mostly due to a few years of wrapper leaf shortages and other issues, so "lighting up on the (filler) leaf" wouldn't do anything to help those regards. Additionally, any change to the filler would noticeably alter the flavor.

The guys over at DE wouldn't even consider doing anything like that. They aren't going to sacrifice their flagship cigar, or any of their lines for that matter, into crap just to milk an extra 10% production by shorting tobacco. In fact, I can't think of any major manufacturer who would be that foolish and dishonest.

Since they can only make as many LPs as materials allow, you have the alternate products they have released, the Undercrown made from more readily available tobaccos and the Papas Fritas made from the trimmings of the LP line.

As for the cigar Dunkel got, sounds like a "bad" stick. It is a handmade product after all. And while they do catch a lot of the off cigars, sometimes things slip past QC (hey, they're only human too).

That was a question, not an assertion. But I'm not sure it would make the cigar "bad" if they did. I'm a big fan of all things Liga Privada, and JD and Steve Saka have always struck me as stand-up guys. No insult meant by that question, so I'm sorry if it came out the wrong way.

[jluck]

I would suit and/or burn the B&M down.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Brlesq

That was a question, not an assertion. But I'm not sure it would make the cigar "bad" if they did. I'm a big fan of all things Liga Privada, and JD and Steve Saka have always struck me as stand-up guys. No insult meant by that question, so I'm sorry if it came out the wrong way.

Understood.

It would totally change the flavor, there are 5 distinctly different leaves in the filler, removing one would be leaving out a component of that flavor.

DE uses a slightly non-standard folding system for the filler when rolling, they have some extra folds in there to create additional air passages through the filler. In order for the extra folds & passages to work though, they have to use a bit less tobacco in the filler than if they were to roll it with the more traditional methods. IIRC, Jon said it was like 15%. Now, if you significantly short that by making all the leaves smaller, then you're going to have so much draw through there, the cigar isn't going to burn even remotely evenly, and the ratio from wrapper & binder vs filler will change enough that the wrapper, if it will even burn at that point, will be overwhelmingly noticeable.

The other thing is that even if they were to short all the filler by trimming the leaves a bit smaller, it wouldn't be enough to make another LP out of. Without doing it, there's already enough trimming that doesn't get used in the LP to make the Papas Fritas and still leave a pile of scrap for picadura, adding to the LP scrap won't get them more PFs, it'll just make a bigger pile of picadura and a bunch of LPs with the draw of a paper towel roll tube. Neither of which are worth a whole lot.

If I had to guess, what happened to Dunkel's cigar was that possibly the filler bunch was cut/torn a bit small - enough to open it up a tiny bit, but yet not enough to cause the bundle to weigh light when QC puts the finished wheel of cigars on the scale. If a tiny amount less filler causes a cigar to draw like that, then imagine what a significant removal would be like...

[oooo35980]

Originally Posted by T.G

DE uses a slightly non-standard folding system for the filler when rolling, they have some extra folds in there to create additional air passages through the filler.

That's interesting, sometimes when my cutter isn't at hand I take a pocket knife and cut around the cap of a cigar, then pull off the cap, leaving the internals unmolested. I've noticed that a lot of LPs have this little divot dead center in the head of the cigar. Never noticed it on any other stick, not that I've gone around checking for it. I have wondered about that little divot a few times, is it there on purpose to facilitate LPs near unfailingly good draw? Hell has anyone else noticed it?

Alternatively I could be crazy and imagining things.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by oooo35980

That's interesting, sometimes when my cutter isn't at hand I take a pocket knife and cut around the cap of a cigar, then pull off the cap, leaving the internals unmolested. I've noticed that a lot of LPs have this little divot dead center in the head of the cigar. Never noticed it on any other stick, not that I've gone around checking for it. I have wondered about that little divot a few times, is it there on purpose to facilitate LPs near unfailingly good draw? Hell has anyone else noticed it?

Alternatively I could be crazy and imagining things.

If we are talking about the same thing, I've seen that before on many different cigars, possibly some of them being Liga Privadas. It has to do with the way the binder or wrapper leaf is applied (either could cause it), when the buncher or roller twists the end of the leaf up around the head, they spin it into a little tail, press the head down on her rolling block to form the rounded shape which will push this tail into the cigar slightly.

The slightly more open bunching of the LP would make it easier for this stub tail to make a noticeable divot in the filler bunch.

Next time you cut a cap off that way and find a divot in the filler, take a look at the inside of the cap, the inward projecting "tail" should be visible.

[TJtorpedo]

Originally Posted by T.G

If we are talking about the same thing, I've seen that before on many different cigars, possibly some of them being Liga Privadas. It has to do with the way the binder or wrapper leaf is applied (either could cause it), when the buncher or roller twists the end of the leaf up around the head, they spin it into a little tail, press the head down on her rolling block to form the rounded shape which will push this tail into the cigar slightly.

The slightly more open bunching of the LP would make it easier for this stub tail to make a noticeable divot in the filler bunch.

Next time you cut a cap off that way and find a divot in the filler, take a look at the inside of the cap, the inward projecting "tail" should be visible.

I have noticed this on many an Undercrown, as well as some other brands. Very interesting info, I hadn't really given it much thought until I read this.

As far as LPs, I don't smoke a ton of them due to price/HTF, but I've never had one that didn't smoke perfectly.