Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Dude, seriously?
Christan Peter
Lawrence Phillips

Ring a bell?


I don't know where you deduct that I'm taking it personally.

Herein lies my uneasiness with NCAA, and have yet to see a credible argument (here or elsewhere) to convince me otherwise: It's arbitrary and capricious. If the NCAA does decide to levy sanctions, they're saying that murder, the raping of women, robbery, drug usage, drug distribution, assault, etc. aren't a violation, but THIS is.

Can you show me where the NCAA has dealt with any of the above for just half the amount of time that we are talking about with PSU and the cover-up related to that?

You can't say, oh the NCAA didn't do anything when Oregon had a player get a felony bla..bla..bla..., then they had a kid get a DUI, then a theft....and have it compare to what happened at PSU. We are talking about the raping of kids for years and years and years and the school covering that up to save their good name.... That isn't a bunch of single incidents over a period of time, which generally are addressed by the school with suspensions anyway... How the difference doesn't compute with you is beyond me.....

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by E.J.

Can you show me where the NCAA has dealt with any of the above for just half the amount of time that we are talking about with PSU and the cover-up related to that?

I wasn't aware of a minimum amount of infractions an NCAA institution had to incure before action was taken. In short, if rules were violated at Penn State, they were violated at other universities as well and the NCAA, for reasons unbeknownst to me, failed to take action.

Originally Posted by E.J.

You can't say, oh the NCAA didn't do anything when Oregon had a player get a felony bla..bla..bla..., then they had a kid get a DUI, then a theft....and have it compare to what happened at PSU. We are talking about the raping of kids for years and years and years and the school covering that up to save their good name.... That isn't a bunch of single incidents over a period of time, which generally are addressed by the school with suspensions anyway... How the difference doesn't compute with you is beyond me.....

And how you can trivialize the other illegal activities (some of which were connected, some of which were covered up by their respective athletic departments) is equally beyond me.

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I wasn't aware of a minimum amount of infractions an NCAA institution had to incure before action was taken. In short, if rules were violated at Penn State, they were violated at other universities as well and the NCAA, for reasons unbeknownst to me, failed to take action.

And how you can trivialize the other illegal activities (some of which were connected, some of which were covered up by their respective athletic departments) is equally beyond me.

I don't have to "trivialize" to know how to address things on different levels, related to what I am looking at. You know, you don't deal with a parking ticket, like you do with a DUI, which is looked at different than a DUI with injury, which is looked at differently than a 5th DUI conviction because of the history bla..bla..bla.... Apparently you cannot(don't want to?) differentiate on those levels, which is my point. That is okay, at least I know where you are with it.....

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by E.J.

I don't have to "trivialize" to know how to address things on different levels, related to what I am looking at. You know, you don't deal with a parking ticket, like you do with a DUI, which is looked at different than a DUI with injury, which is looked at differently than a 5th DUI conviction because of the history bla..bla..bla.... Apparently you cannot(don't want to?) differentiate on those levels, which is my point. That is okay, at least I know where you are with it.....

Yes, and each infraction carries a varying degree of punishment, depending on the crime, of which the NCAA has NEVER involved themselves with.

Originally Posted by E.J.

I don't have a strong opinion either way, though for those saying "no" related to the NCAA overstepping their bounds, what about "lack of institutional control"? To me, this seems to fit that bill perfectly.....

Would you say that Colordao circa 1997-2004 (bit hazy on the timeline; sorry) fits your bill of, "lack of institutional control"?

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Would you say that Colordao circa 1997-2004 (bit hazy on the timeline; sorry) fits your bill of, "lack of institutional control"?

Again, your comparisons that are shallow at best.... Unless, there was a serial rapist/murderer what have you, that was on staff at that time and the head coach(was it McCartney then?) and administration was covering up for him, letting him continue unabated, on staff and then off....but you know, letting him use the showers and whatnot...

Though, please do tell what you think was happening during those years that has relevance here....what was close....in the same ballpark as what we are talking about.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by E.J.

Again, your comparisons that are shallow at best.... Unless, there was a serial rapist/murderer what have you, that was on staff at that time and the head coach(was it McCartney then?) and administration was covering up for him, letting him continue unabated, on staff and then off....but you know, letting him use the showers and whatnot...

Though, please do tell what you think was happening during those years that has relevance here....what was close....in the same ballpark as what we are talking about.

A multitude of rapes/sexual assaults by multiple football players, a coverup (or the very least a, "glossing over") by the coaching staff and administration, and, if I remember correctly, a sympathetic DA's office. Again, this is all from memory, but it was a fairly big deal at the time.

In any case, my overall point is that if it's a question of ethical conduct, why hasn't the NCAA gotten involved in incidents too numerous to mention? If it's, "lack of institutional control", why didn't the NCAA investigate the likes of Colorado or Nebraska? Or am I to believe that something the magnitude that transpired at Penn State needs to occur before institutional control is lost?

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by Stephen

A multitude of rapes/sexual assaults by multiple football players, a coverup (or the very least a, "glossing over") by the coaching staff and administration, and, if I remember correctly, a sympathetic DA's office. Again, this is all from memory, but it was a fairly big deal at the time.

In any case, my overall point is that if it's a question of ethical conduct, why hasn't the NCAA gotten involved in incidents too numerous to mention? If it's, "lack of institutional control", why didn't the NCAA investigate the likes of Colorado or Nebraska? Or am I to believe that something the magnitude that transpired at Penn State needs to occur before institutional control is lost?

BINGO!!!!!

Yes, that is the point EXACTLY! You got it....I feel like if this was a race, we could all give you a hug right now.

I am not sure about your memory of the facts at Colorado, I don't recall numerous rapes(or even some felony after felony wagon train of which the NCAA had never seen before) that were covered up, hidden from the public ect. My assumption is that is how the public found out, arrests ect. But I could be wrong, doesn't matter....AGAIN...it wasn't in the ballpark of what we are talking. The reason you haven't seen an uproar of the general public, many of which are not even sports fans, asking for the NCAA to do something in this case and not others.....THE MAGNITUDE. Which is why the NCAA might do something......THE MAGNITUDE.

It isn't a bunch of idiot athletes making a mistake here, committing a felony there & then a coach giving a 1-2 game suspension and then saying "He's a kid, let's give him another chance" - translation - "I can win games with this kid or he'd already be gone." It is decades of child molestation and cover up. Not only glossing over wrong doing, give a second chance....but covering up and letting this man continue to rape kids on their watch... HOW PHUCKING SICK IS THAT. Yes, some 18-22 year old kids making mistakes and being disciplined, then given a second(3,4,5th) chance is one thing.... Harboring a child rapist....well, I think you get the point.