How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long Post

Originally Posted by TDK08

habanos SA since mid 2006 has used industrial freezing which many articles state. Im interested however as ive never frozen before, the freezing will kill beetles and larvae but will all eggs be destroyed if i follow this process? Or will they go dormant and inactive but still live?

No eggs will not survive see the first portion of the table in red above showing how long at what temp to kill eggs.

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by SilverFox

No eggs will not survive see the first portion of the table in red above showing how long at what temp to kill eggs.

I have to disagree with you here. I personally have had eggs hatch after freezing twice.

I know you and I have had discussion before about this subject. After you showed me before the information you had, I accepted it and have had no problems. But a couple weeks ago, I had a run in again with a beetle. I know these sticks were frozen and the particular stick was frozen twice. Maybe I am the exception

Any thoughts on how this happened?

[md4958]

Originally Posted by wayner123

I have to disagree with you here. I personally have had eggs hatch after freezing twice.

I know you and I have had discussion before about this subject. After you showed me before the information you had, I accepted it and have had no problems. But a couple weeks ago, I had a run in again with a beetle. I know these sticks were frozen and the particular stick was frozen twice. Maybe I am the exception

Any thoughts on how this happened?

perhaps they were not frozen for a long enough period?

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by md4958

perhaps they were not frozen for a long enough period?

I used the exact method that SilverFox laid out the first time. And the second time they were frozen for 96 hours (4 days).

[rack04]

Originally Posted by wayner123

I used the exact method that SilverFox laid out the first time. And the second time they were frozen for 96 hours (4 days).

Could the bettle have come from other sticks? Maybe after you froze?

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by rack04

Could the bettle have come from other sticks? Maybe after you froze?

That's the only thing I can think of. But I freeze everything now. Incoming from BOTL's and bought sticks. If it did come from some other stick, I didn't see any holes in another cigar. I checked every single cigar.

Originally Posted by wayner123

I have to disagree with you here. I personally have had eggs hatch after freezing twice.

I know you and I have had discussion before about this subject. After you showed me before the information you had, I accepted it and have had no problems. But a couple weeks ago, I had a run in again with a beetle. I know these sticks were frozen and the particular stick was frozen twice. Maybe I am the exception

Any thoughts on how this happened?

While I believe in the study I don't have any doubt that what you say is true.

Which leads me to believe that your beetles are somewhere else, perhaps in your humi? Maybe they are indigenous to your area? Do you frequent a B&M that might have them?

Knowing your penchant for research Wayne I am assuming you have thought of these things already.

I two have had a beetle outbreak twice and I freeze everything that comes in, I haven't had a problem sense I started this.. Only difference is I throw them directly into the freezer first..

[bonjing]

ok i have to ask, is there anyway to screw-up freezing cigars? like not taking out enough air, to many cigars in a bag?

are there any extra precautions i should take? i know the instructions are straight forward, but somehow i can find a way to screw it up. i think will try it out first on one cigar.

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by SilverFox

While I believe in the study I don't have any doubt that what you say is true.

Which leads me to believe that your beetles are somewhere else, perhaps in your humi? Maybe they are indigenous to your area? Do you frequent a B&M that might have them?

Knowing your penchant for research Wayne I am assuming you have thought of these things already.

Yeah, that's the thing. I have thought of just about every aspect of how this could happen. The only thing I can figure is that the eggs were not killed, and my temps in FL get high. Most people on here have Vino's or some other type of temp control be it electric or because they live in areas not as hot as FL. So the freeze is a great tool, it just sucked that it did not work 100% for me

[md4958]

Originally Posted by wayner123

Yeah, that's the thing. I have thought of just about every aspect of how this could happen. The only thing I can figure is that the eggs were not killed, and my temps in FL get high. Most people on here have Vino's or some other type of temp control be it electric or because they live in areas not as hot as FL. So the freeze is a great tool, it just sucked that it did not work 100% for me

fortunately you discovered the infestation before it caused major damage

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by md4958

fortunately you discovered the infestation before it caused major damage

And I think that is upmost in the discussion of beetles and cigars.

I don't have a large collection of smokes. So I can go through my whole collection, stick by stick, in around 30 minutes. Most of those horrible pics you see were of cigars that have been left alone for some while. That is the real danger with dealing with beetles. If you go through your cigars regularly, you will be able to catch any traces of beetles. I know there are a good number of BOTL's who's collections may not be huge, so IMO beetles are not a great risk to them. If you see one you will be able to kill it and more than likely save the stick or two it made a hole in.

But there are also those BOTL's who have loads of cigars, boxes, etc. In those cases a box may not be opened for a year or more. That is when beetles can become a real problem to your collection. These unchecked "aging" boxes become a literal feeding/breeding gorund for tobacco beetles.

Freezing is a great precaution and preventative step in maintaining sanity about your smokes. But if your collection is small to begin with, you will probably smoke through or examine by happenstance the sticks you have before they become a problem.

[Totemic]

Originally Posted by wayner123

Yeah, that's the thing. I have thought of just about every aspect of how this could happen. The only thing I can figure is that the eggs were not killed, and my temps in FL get high. Most people on here have Vino's or some other type of temp control be it electric or because they live in areas not as hot as FL. So the freeze is a great tool, it just sucked that it did not work 100% for me

Is it possible the beetle infestation may not be in the cigars but in the humidor itself? I know that once an infestation breaks out, you not only have to freeze the cigars, but also clean up the humidor. Maybe you missed a pocket in there somewhere?

This assumes of course, the cigars were frozen long enough to ensure the core of the cigar reached the temperature in question for the duration needed to kill off all the little buggers.

Anyways, for me at least, I don't freeze cigars mostly because as Wayner123 pointed out, I tend to monitor my cigars pretty regularly so the odds of having any cigars go for weeks/months without me at least eyeballing it once is remote. Not to mention, I'm a lazy bum and I hate having to deal with all the prep work for freezing/thawing cigars (although, I may start taking those precautions).

[Mr.Italy]

What do you think on the long term aging ( 10 years) for a box of cigars if freezed and not freezed.

Will we loose some aroma/essential oils flavour etc.

JFYI all cigars that are sold in Italy are freezed by the importer ( this means freezed twice as also in Cuba premium cigars (not all) are freezed).,

Originally Posted by Mr.Italy

What do you think on the long term aging ( 10 years) for a box of cigars if freezed and not freezed.

Will we loose some aroma/essential oils flavour etc.

JFYI all cigars that are sold in Italy are freezed by the importer ( this means freezed twice as also in Cuba premium cigars (not all) are freezed).,

I have no imperical evidence either way as I have nothing that I have personally frozen that has been around in my humi for more than a year as that is how long ago I started freezing.

I believe that it would not have any impact as their is no loss of oils or aroma if they are fully sealed. Some may argue the other side of that, but my preference given that I have a larger collection (at least to me) and have boxes that may go unopened for years is that I freeze. I would rather risk the loss of a little flavor than open a box of dust in 3 years.

I think that this whole freezing thing is a case by case decision, Wayner made a good point earlier that if you have a relatively small collection and are looking at your sticks on a regular basis and smoke through them fairly quickly then freezing may not be necessary for you.

I have 1,400 plus cigars of which many are boxes that I have only opened upon receipt from the vendor and have not as yet reopened nor will I likely open them for some years to come so freezing is like buying insurance to me (which I also have on my cigars) I would rather not take the risk, I have invested much money time and effort into my collection.

Hope this helps