What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to fight it

BlackIrish · 12-31-2008, 01:05 PM

Thanks for the thought-provoking post. Here's my $0.02.

1. JoeCigar describes its offerings in glowing terms, even when they don't deserve it. But every vendor does this (take a look at Famous, Holts, JR), and that's why we spend so much time reviewing cigars -- to provide an independent perspective.

2. The prices on JoeCigar's deals often are not much better than the box price divided by two. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, as others have noted. There are times you want to try 10 before committing to a box, and less-than-box quantities typically cost more, on a unit basis, than a box does. To get 5 or 10 sticks at the same per-cigar price you'd pay if you bought a box can be a good deal.

3. Even so, JoeCigar prices aren't always a great deal. There are other vendors that offer better prices on a regular basis, which is why it's critical to do your research homework, using tools like CigarCyclopedia's comparison shopper. It's not uncommon to be able to buy two 5pks of a cigar from Atlantic Cigar, for instance, for about the same price as you can buy the JoeCigar deal.

4. JoeCigar and CI do ship quite wet, as virtually everyone else has observed, but we expect that. I always put my purchases in a humi for at least 30 days to stabilize. But I do that with everything I order over the internet.

5. I don't have enough evidence to conclude that the cigars offered on JoeCigar are of lower quality. There's enough variation in handmade premiums that it's hard to draw any conclusions without a much more controlled comparison. Maybe I'm too big a science geek, but before I'd make any conclusion, I'd want to compare a cigar from JoeCigar with the same cigar from another vendor and from a B&M, all stored in my humidor for a decent amount of time (3mos?). And then I'd want to do that repeatedly, to try to control for the inevitable inconsistency between cigars even in the same box. It would be an interesting experiment, but I don't have the patience to do it.

My approach: be an educated and critical consumer. Expect that the descriptions on JoeCigar are hype. Expect that JoeCigar is offering sticks that are moving slowly. Expect that they'll be shipped wet. Read reviews, shop around, and compare prices before clicking the buy button.

Being a critical consumer means that I take everything a vendor says with skepticism, because that's the way the marketplace works. But it doesn't mean that I'm quick to conclude that a vendor is acting in bad faith or engaging in unethical conduct. I've bought subpar cigars from CI and sent them back, without hassle, simply because I didn't like how they tasted or were constructed. My experience with their customer service has generally been good, and that experience leads me to believe that they engage in hype and puffery but don't cross the line into deception or unethical practices.

Nevertheless, I think your post is thoughtful and a valuable contribution to our discussion here.

Have a new year full of delicious smokes.

BlackIrish

Silound · 12-31-2008, 01:40 PM

Unfortunately, CI lost my business for a while after a botched shipment of a 5opk of GoF's. The box came in terrible shape, and CI wouldn't make good on shipping damage on "top end" sticks, even when UPS wouldn't do anything.

I expect, at the very least, that they could take it up with UPS about shipping and simply make good to me, or tell me they would "work on it", but instead I was told flat out, no.

Ahh well, I have enough cigars right now, I don't need more.

Drazzil · 12-31-2008, 01:47 PM

I cant believe CI would do that, that sounds like an issue to take up with the Supervisor or the manager, and barring that, with your credit card company to reverse the charges.

12-31-2008, 01:05 PM	#1
BlackIrish MassHole Militia Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Eddie Location: Bunker Hill Posts: 1,396 Trading: (55)	Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh Thanks for the thought-provoking post. Here's my $0.02. 1. JoeCigar describes its offerings in glowing terms, even when they don't deserve it. But every vendor does this (take a look at Famous, Holts, JR), and that's why we spend so much time reviewing cigars -- to provide an independent perspective. 2. The prices on JoeCigar's deals often are not much better than the box price divided by two. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, as others have noted. There are times you want to try 10 before committing to a box, and less-than-box quantities typically cost more, on a unit basis, than a box does. To get 5 or 10 sticks at the same per-cigar price you'd pay if you bought a box can be a good deal. 3. Even so, JoeCigar prices aren't always a great deal. There are other vendors that offer better prices on a regular basis, which is why it's critical to do your research homework, using tools like CigarCyclopedia's comparison shopper. It's not uncommon to be able to buy two 5pks of a cigar from Atlantic Cigar, for instance, for about the same price as you can buy the JoeCigar deal. 4. JoeCigar and CI do ship quite wet, as virtually everyone else has observed, but we expect that. I always put my purchases in a humi for at least 30 days to stabilize. But I do that with everything I order over the internet. 5. I don't have enough evidence to conclude that the cigars offered on JoeCigar are of lower quality. There's enough variation in handmade premiums that it's hard to draw any conclusions without a much more controlled comparison. Maybe I'm too big a science geek, but before I'd make any conclusion, I'd want to compare a cigar from JoeCigar with the same cigar from another vendor and from a B&M, all stored in my humidor for a decent amount of time (3mos?). And then I'd want to do that repeatedly, to try to control for the inevitable inconsistency between cigars even in the same box. It would be an interesting experiment, but I don't have the patience to do it. My approach: be an educated and critical consumer. Expect that the descriptions on JoeCigar are hype. Expect that JoeCigar is offering sticks that are moving slowly. Expect that they'll be shipped wet. Read reviews, shop around, and compare prices before clicking the buy button. Being a critical consumer means that I take everything a vendor says with skepticism, because that's the way the marketplace works. But it doesn't mean that I'm quick to conclude that a vendor is acting in bad faith or engaging in unethical conduct. I've bought subpar cigars from CI and sent them back, without hassle, simply because I didn't like how they tasted or were constructed. My experience with their customer service has generally been good, and that experience leads me to believe that they engage in hype and puffery but don't cross the line into deception or unethical practices. Nevertheless, I think your post is thoughtful and a valuable contribution to our discussion here. Have a new year full of delicious smokes. BlackIrish __________________

12-31-2008, 01:40 PM	#2
Silound ex-CS Swamp Gorilla Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Somewhere in a swamp, south of sanity Posts: 802 Trading: (15)	Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh Unfortunately, CI lost my business for a while after a botched shipment of a 5opk of GoF's. The box came in terrible shape, and CI wouldn't make good on shipping damage on "top end" sticks, even when UPS wouldn't do anything. I expect, at the very least, that they could take it up with UPS about shipping and simply make good to me, or tell me they would "work on it", but instead I was told flat out, no. Ahh well, I have enough cigars right now, I don't need more. __________________ Back in black, and better than ever! You can't keep a good gorilla down! LSU Geaux Tigers!

12-31-2008, 01:47 PM	#3
Drazzil Adjusting to the Life Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: David Location: Boozetown Posts: 355 Trading: (31)	Re: What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to figh I cant believe CI would do that, that sounds like an issue to take up with the Supervisor or the manager, and barring that, with your credit card company to reverse the charges.