411 on Flor de Oliva

Flounder · 06-30-2011, 12:02 PM

So, one of my closest friends, the one that got me into cigars works at my local B & M and he was explaining that the "Flor de Oliva" line is made by the Oliva company, and what they are is regular Olivas (V, G, O, etc) that came out discolored, or a fraction too short or too long, or the ring gauge is slightly off, so they label them as Flors and sell them discounted.

So in reality you're smoking a $7-12 stick for $2-5... That's what he told me, not sure if any of you know of this or heard the same, heard different? Assume different?

T.G · 06-30-2011, 12:11 PM

Never heard that before. AFAIK, the FdO's are simply a low-price point bundle cigar, they are not seconds.

Flounder · 06-30-2011, 12:15 PM

I'm not sure I completely believe it. But at the same time he knows his **** and wouldn't lie to me.

G G · 06-30-2011, 12:23 PM

I am fairly sure they are not as you describe them. However they are a very good smoke for the price. I have seen information saying that they are sold in boxes everywhere but the US. They are sold in bundles here.

jledou · 06-30-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.G

Never heard that before. AFAIK, the FdO's are simply a low-price point bundle cigar, they are not seconds.

Remo · 06-30-2011, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flounder

I'm not sure I completely believe it. But at the same time he knows his **** and wouldn't lie to me.

I don't think he is lying to you, I just don't think he knows his **** as much as he thinks.

Emjaysmash · 06-30-2011, 12:30 PM

"Flavorful cigars long filler premium "firsts" from the Oliva Cigar Co. Flor de Oliva made with all 100% long leaf filler. These terrific tasting bundled cigars are not the seconds you often see advertised out on the net. These are first quality handrolled at the Oliva Co. -Bonita smoke Shop

To be honest, they taste nothing like any of the "regular" lines.

T.G · 06-30-2011, 12:32 PM

I don't think he is lying to you, but he might be misinformed or accidentally confusing cigars.

One of the things about seconds is that there is NO cigar manufacturer on this planet that sets out with the intent to make them, and when they do have some, they immediately react to correct the problem. This all occurs within hours at the factory. QC is everywhere in the factories, walking up and down the lines, inspecting cigars, testing cigars, smoking cigars constantly. Usually problems are caught very early on. Leaves are sorted and inspected many times to weed out the blemished ones from the high priced lines. Rollers check ring gauges before applying the wrappers, and they can discard damaged or blemished wrappers if they see fit. The trimmers have stops in them which lock to specific length, you really have to not be paying attention to get the length wrong.

What does all this mean?

Means that there shouldn't be very many seconds. If there are lots of seconds, people tend to lose their jobs, and a cigar factory job is typically a well paying job (outside of Cuba that is). Because if make too many $10 cigars that end up as seconds for $2, you go out of business.

So, if there are lots of seconds, they probably aren't really seconds. And everyone and their competitor sells FdOs.

FdO's might have less than perfect capas, but that's not because they are seconds, but because the better leaves were sorted out for use in the more expensive lines. They might not be exactly identical from cigar to cigar nor look like the model perfect cigar, this is not because they are rejects, but because they are made by the more junior rolling teams who have less experience. You don't put your best rolleras and buncheros on the line making $3 cigars. You put them on the line where the product must be perfect because it's a $15 cigar.

Flounder · 06-30-2011, 12:34 PM

What do factories do with their seconds? Even if there is just a few?

awsmith4 · 06-30-2011, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flounder

What do factories do with their seconds? Even if there is just a few?

They usually will sell them as a large lot to Gurkha and they will in turn pass them off as $20 cigars....just kidding they will sell them to stores to sell them as seconds. Go to Cigars International of Famous Cigar and do a search for 'seconds'.

T.G · 06-30-2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flounder

What do factories do with their seconds? Even if there is just a few?

Depends on the factory and the cigars, more times than not though, the QC guys just smoke them. Except at Padron, where Orlando smokes them.

I'm serious. He thinks it's great - he's one of the richest men in the cigar business and he walks around smoking all the rejected, busted x000 cigars.

Some factories they destroy them, like Fuente, where they will rip the cigar up as to make it unusable, unrepairable and unsmokeable, then throw it in the trash.

Sometimes they can be reworked, but typically it's not worth the labor cost to do that. Remember, the cigars with the most expensive components are being rolled buy the workers least likely to screw up and create a second.

T.G · 06-30-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awsmith4

They usually will sell them as a large lot to Gurkha and they will in turn pass them off as $20 cigars....just kidding they will sell them to stores to sell them as seconds. Go to Cigars International of Famous Cigar and do a search for 'seconds'.

LOL at the Gurkha bit. As for the "seconds" at CI, Famous, etc. eh.... not exactly, most of those aren't truly seconds. The RP stuff is flat out firsts with no bands, boxes and less aging time.

jledou · 06-30-2011, 01:05 PM

They may also be using a "similar" tobacco or a lower grade of the same tobacco as the O, G, etc in the FdO which may be some of the confusion?

Flounder · 06-30-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jledou

They may also be using a "similar" tobacco or a lower grade of the same tobacco as the O, G, etc in the FdO which may be some of the confusion?

Could be. Like I said. I didn't 100% believe it when I heard it, so I tossed it around here to see if you guys knew more, or better.

awsmith4 · 06-30-2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.G

LOL at the Gurkha bit. As for the "seconds" at CI, Famous, etc. eh.... not exactly, most of those aren't truly seconds. The RP stuff is flat out firsts with no bands, boxes and less aging time.

Did not realize that...you learn something new every day.

T.G · 06-30-2011, 01:36 PM

One of the things in working with tobacco is that to get the premium leaf, you can get stuck with some not so desirable leaf. Not all leaves are picture perfect. If you're buying tobacco, you often have to buy the less desirable to get the chance to buy the better stuff. The farmer certainly doesn't want to be stuck with only the less desirable stuff - no one comes looking to buy that. If you're growing it, well, not every leaf you grow is going to be ideal.

So what do you do with, say, 10 tons of ugly wrapper leaf that you had to buy in order to get 15 tons of premium leaf?

If you're lucky, you can cut them in such a way as to make some decent looking cigars with it. If not, you make the best cigars you can for the price point and figure out a marketing spin for them that doesn't require a lot of explanation to the consumer but yet simultaneously, completely justifies why they might look the way they do and appeals to the budget conscious.

NCRadioMan · 06-30-2011, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jledou

They may also be using a "similar" tobacco or a lower grade of the same tobacco as the O, G, etc in the FdO which may be some of the confusion?

This is what I have always known to be true. I agree with the others that the FdO line are not seconds.

Flounder, you will typically find the folks who work in b&m's are simply not as well informed as those who have been on the cigars boards any length of time.

I have been on the boards for over 6 years and I have worked at a b&m for over 4 years and I have had to educate my boss (owned for over 30 years) and several that work with me constantly.

Don Fernando · 07-01-2011, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flounder

So, one of my closest friends, the one that got me into cigars works at my local B & M and he was explaining that the "Flor de Oliva" line is made by the Oliva company, and what they are is regular Olivas (V, G, O, etc) that came out discolored, or a fraction too short or too long, or the ring gauge is slightly off, so they label them as Flors and sell them discounted.

So in reality you're smoking a $7-12 stick for $2-5... That's what he told me, not sure if any of you know of this or heard the same, heard different? Assume different?

not true

07-01-2011, 02:18 AM

I have always heard that they are two separate companies with almost the same name, hence the confusion. I know some people who see FdO and immediately think they will smoke like the Oliva cigars. In my opinion they are not owned by the same people but just have similar names, if not the same for their factories, which lead to better sales for FdO and no negative repercussions for Oliva as far as I can tell, other than people being confused, so neither really does anything about it. Just my 2 cents though.

emopunker2004 · 07-01-2011, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallbright

I have always heard that they are two separate companies with almost the same name, hence the confusion. I know some people who see FdO and immediately think they will smoke like the Oliva cigars. In my opinion they are not owned by the same people but just have similar names, if not the same for their factories, which lead to better sales for FdO and no negative repercussions for Oliva as far as I can tell, other than people being confused, so neither really does anything about it. Just my 2 cents though.

Oliva Cigar Co. brands:
Oliva
Flor de Oliva
Master Blends
NUb
Cain
Sol Cubano [7]

06-30-2011, 12:02 PM	#1
Flounder Adjusting to the Life Join Date: Jun 2011 First Name: Ethan Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 422 Trading: (1)	411 on Flor de Oliva So, one of my closest friends, the one that got me into cigars works at my local B & M and he was explaining that the "Flor de Oliva" line is made by the Oliva company, and what they are is regular Olivas (V, G, O, etc) that came out discolored, or a fraction too short or too long, or the ring gauge is slightly off, so they label them as Flors and sell them discounted. So in reality you're smoking a $7-12 stick for $2-5... That's what he told me, not sure if any of you know of this or heard the same, heard different? Assume different?

06-30-2011, 12:11 PM	#2
T.G Grrrrrr Join Date: Mar 2009 First Name: The Other Adam Posts: 15,565 Trading: (37)	Re: 411 on Flor de Oliva Never heard that before. AFAIK, the FdO's are simply a low-price point bundle cigar, they are not seconds.

06-30-2011, 12:15 PM	#3
Flounder Adjusting to the Life Join Date: Jun 2011 First Name: Ethan Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 422 Trading: (1)	Re: 411 on Flor de Oliva I'm not sure I completely believe it. But at the same time he knows his **** and wouldn't lie to me.

06-30-2011, 12:23 PM	#4
G G BR549 Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Greg Location: Taylor, FL. Posts: 12,748 Trading: (10)	Re: 411 on Flor de Oliva I am fairly sure they are not as you describe them. However they are a very good smoke for the price. I have seen information saying that they are sold in boxes everywhere but the US. They are sold in bundles here.

06-30-2011, 12:30 PM	#7
Emjaysmash The Hebrew Hammer Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: M.J. Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 7,025 Trading: (76)	Re: 411 on Flor de Oliva "Flavorful cigars long filler premium "firsts" from the Oliva Cigar Co. Flor de Oliva made with all 100% long leaf filler. These terrific tasting bundled cigars are not the seconds you often see advertised out on the net. These are first quality handrolled at the Oliva Co. -Bonita smoke Shop To be honest, they taste nothing like any of the "regular" lines. __________________

06-30-2011, 12:32 PM	#8
T.G Grrrrrr Join Date: Mar 2009 First Name: The Other Adam Posts: 15,565 Trading: (37)	Re: 411 on Flor de Oliva I don't think he is lying to you, but he might be misinformed or accidentally confusing cigars. One of the things about seconds is that there is NO cigar manufacturer on this planet that sets out with the intent to make them, and when they do have some, they immediately react to correct the problem. This all occurs within hours at the factory. QC is everywhere in the factories, walking up and down the lines, inspecting cigars, testing cigars, smoking cigars constantly. Usually problems are caught very early on. Leaves are sorted and inspected many times to weed out the blemished ones from the high priced lines. Rollers check ring gauges before applying the wrappers, and they can discard damaged or blemished wrappers if they see fit. The trimmers have stops in them which lock to specific length, you really have to not be paying attention to get the length wrong. What does all this mean? Means that there shouldn't be very many seconds. If there are lots of seconds, people tend to lose their jobs, and a cigar factory job is typically a well paying job (outside of Cuba that is). Because if make too many $10 cigars that end up as seconds for $2, you go out of business. So, if there are lots of seconds, they probably aren't really seconds. And everyone and their competitor sells FdOs. FdO's might have less than perfect capas, but that's not because they are seconds, but because the better leaves were sorted out for use in the more expensive lines. They might not be exactly identical from cigar to cigar nor look like the model perfect cigar, this is not because they are rejects, but because they are made by the more junior rolling teams who have less experience. You don't put your best rolleras and buncheros on the line making $3 cigars. You put them on the line where the product must be perfect because it's a $15 cigar. Last edited by T.G; 06-30-2011 at 12:41 PM.

06-30-2011, 12:34 PM	#9
Flounder Adjusting to the Life Join Date: Jun 2011 First Name: Ethan Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 422 Trading: (1)	Re: 411 on Flor de Oliva What do factories do with their seconds? Even if there is just a few?

06-30-2011, 01:05 PM	#13
jledou Have My Own Room Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Jay Location: Kansas Posts: 2,246 Trading: (27)	Re: 411 on Flor de Oliva They may also be using a "similar" tobacco or a lower grade of the same tobacco as the O, G, etc in the FdO which may be some of the confusion?

06-30-2011, 01:36 PM	#16
T.G Grrrrrr Join Date: Mar 2009 First Name: The Other Adam Posts: 15,565 Trading: (37)	Re: 411 on Flor de Oliva One of the things in working with tobacco is that to get the premium leaf, you can get stuck with some not so desirable leaf. Not all leaves are picture perfect. If you're buying tobacco, you often have to buy the less desirable to get the chance to buy the better stuff. The farmer certainly doesn't want to be stuck with only the less desirable stuff - no one comes looking to buy that. If you're growing it, well, not every leaf you grow is going to be ideal. So what do you do with, say, 10 tons of ugly wrapper leaf that you had to buy in order to get 15 tons of premium leaf? If you're lucky, you can cut them in such a way as to make some decent looking cigars with it. If not, you make the best cigars you can for the price point and figure out a marketing spin for them that doesn't require a lot of explanation to the consumer but yet simultaneously, completely justifies why they might look the way they do and appeals to the budget conscious.

07-01-2011, 02:18 AM	#19
Tyler Guest Posts: n/a	Re: 411 on Flor de Oliva I have always heard that they are two separate companies with almost the same name, hence the confusion. I know some people who see FdO and immediately think they will smoke like the Oliva cigars. In my opinion they are not owned by the same people but just have similar names, if not the same for their factories, which lead to better sales for FdO and no negative repercussions for Oliva as far as I can tell, other than people being confused, so neither really does anything about it. Just my 2 cents though.