Why the big three bailout is a BAD idea

[Drazzil]

What I posted above isin't an article, its something I banged together in fifteen minutes or so, note the lack of in depth examination of the average American's role in this fiasco. Thomas Jefferson said something along the lines of:

"Our government isin't a representative of everyone, just those who participate"

We as Americans, well most of us have been content to let ourselves be lulled into a trap of complacency by those who would rob, cheat and steal their way through not only our wallets, but also through our civil liberties. Like an unchecked cancer the threat of special intrests threatens to kill our grand experiment into democracy, we are like a great liner sailing into an iceburg, and not many are the voices who would warn us of it. We are content to let madmen sail us straight into a disaster, in the name of short term gain, then we are content to let those same madmen load cash into lifeboats and set sail leaving us to drown, that ladies and gentlemen is the bailout.

We are perfectly happy to let our politicans point fingers and blame eachother and replace one set of corrupt men with another, like shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

With any sort of bailout we are mortaging not just our futures, but the futures of our children, and grandchildren. We are not the beneficiaries of this bailout, but rather we have been victimized twice. To put it into simple terms, it would be like coming home to find your home cleaned out, and then ten minutes later, having the robber show up in a suit and tie to ask for your bank account number, and having obtained this then asking for your childrens addresses so he can do the same to them.

To say I am angry at the whole system right now, would be an understatement.

Originally Posted by Scottw

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6012/bailoutyk2.jpg

Funny as hell and sadly very true!

Originally Posted by Da Klugs

Nice.

I think we need to help try and save the Auto industry here in the US.

We being:

Consumers - We buy US cars .. because the bailout money should go as a tax credit or rebate check directly to the car buyer for cars sold by the big 3 that are assembled here on the next 10 million cars sold (around 2 years of historical sales). $ 10,000 per car on the first 2,500,000 sold, $ 7,500 per car on the next 2.5, $ 5000 on the next 2.5 and $ 2500 on the last $ 2.5. It's a fifty billion dollars and it goes to whoever buys the damn cars not the workers, executives etc. Direct benefit and 100% bang for the buck guaranteed.

Auto company workers - Everyone takes a % reduction in pay and benefits, workers, retirees, executives etc. Whatever the number is to make them competitive. Say 30%. If they say no friggin way... well then do it your way without any of the rest of our's money. The long term viability depends upon leveling the playing field with the competition. Otherwise this is just the first sip at the public trough.

Banks - Either loan money at reasonable rates to those that are credit worthy to buy cars, homes, etc. or we are taking our bailout money back.

I agree with this 100%!

Originally Posted by Drazzil

What I posted above isin't an article, its something I banged together in fifteen minutes or so, note the lack of in depth examination of the average American's role in this fiasco. Thomas Jefferson said something along the lines of:

"Our government isin't a representative of everyone, just those who participate"

We as Americans, well most of us have been content to let ourselves be lulled into a trap of complacency by those who would rob, cheat and steal their way through not only our wallets, but also through our civil liberties. Like an unchecked cancer the threat of special intrests threatens to kill our grand experiment into democracy, we are like a great liner sailing into an iceburg, and not many are the voices who would warn us of it. We are content to let madmen sail us straight into a disaster, in the name of short term gain, then we are content to let those same madmen load cash into lifeboats and set sail leaving us to drown, that ladies and gentlemen is the bailout.

We are perfectly happy to let our politicans point fingers and blame eachother and replace one set of corrupt men with another, like shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

With any sort of bailout we are mortaging not just our futures, but the futures of our children, and grandchildren. We are not the beneficiaries of this bailout, but rather we have been victimized twice. To put it into simple terms, it would be like coming home to find your home cleaned out, and then ten minutes later, having the robber show up in a suit and tie to ask for your bank account number, and having obtained this then asking for your childrens addresses so he can do the same to them.

To say I am angry at the whole system right now, would be an understatement.

To say that I am growing more apathetic daily is an understatement. We, the middle class are systematically being downsized one class until it will either be the lower or upper class, period. By the time the gov't takes enough of our money thru these bailouts we will owe more money in our lifetime as it was estimated ( $25,000 per adult ) for all of the proposed bailouts. This is on top of what we already pay in our usual taxes. That is unacceptable,,,until we fight back with our votes this kind of $hit will continue. Anybody else had enough?

Does anyone think that the union has any affect on this, I mean who pays a person 38 buck an hour to tighten four bolts.

[Da Klugs]

Originally Posted by piperman

Does anyone think that the union has any affect on this, I mean who pays a person 38 buck an hour to tighten four bolts.

Isn't that a days work for government plumbers? US Autoworker jobs fall far less into that category now than 25 years ago. The issue isn't that they don't work hard. Visit a plant sometime. The issue is that alternatives (Honda, Toyota, etc) offer more bang for the buck/quality etc. because they can produce better vehicles at a lower cost. A recipe for extinction unless something changes. What has to change is the retirement costs, wage costs, benefits and work rules. The last contract guaranteed continuing to pay workers when their plant closed fer Christ sake. All the things the unions have fought for and won for 40 years. They won!!! Unfortunately there has to be a viable business entity to pay them. It all flushes unless they (management, Labor and Retirees) agree to something sustainable.... a significant percentage less than now. Otherwise, any money given only for stalls the inevitable and they all eventually lose.

[HK3-]

Originally Posted by piperman

Does anyone think that the union has any affect on this, I mean who pays a person 38 buck an hour to tighten four bolts.

Who pays a president who blows smoke and then has been back-peddling since he was elected.

Yes, the UAW needs to take a little cut.

Let them go down. What good will it do to bail them out? Will they restructure their business? Who knows.

[gettysburgfreak]

I will never ever buy an American made car. I am sick and tired of CEO's that make a **** load of money while they make crappy ass cars and then have the balls to ask for money to help their asses. Maybe if they actually made cars that were decent and didnt have salaires that could buy a small country, they wouldnt be in this mess. You don't see great car makers such as Audi, BMW, or Mercedes having problems.

[Genetic Defect]

Originally Posted by gettysburgfreak

I will never ever buy an American made car. I am sick and tired of CEO's that make a **** load of money while they make crappy ass cars and then have the balls to ask for money to help their asses. Maybe if they actually made cars that were decent and didnt have salaires that could buy a small country, they wouldnt be in this mess. You don't see great car makers such as Audi, BMW, or Mercedes having problems.

VW has issues, all manufactures makes lemons

[Rockestone]

Unions=Bad for Business .

[floydpink]

I'm a little foggy on all the facts, but I understood this to be a low interest LOAN that the automakers will pay back. How, I don't know as less and less people seem to want to drive American cars.

I'm hypocritical as I frown on Japanese motorcycles, but have 2 Japanese automobiles in my garage that are leased and will be traded in for more Japanese cars when the lease is up.

Last Ford I had blew through 3 trannies before hitting 100k miles. My Japanese trucks and wife's car never need more than an oil change.

[Genetic Defect]

Originally Posted by Rockestone

Unions=Bad for Business .

Battle of the Overpass.

[gettysburgfreak]

Originally Posted by Big Vito

VW has issues, all manufactures makes lemons

Yea but you don't see any of them asking their governments to bail their asses out.