Motorcyclists and non-riders , I would like opinions on this story

[floydpink]

Greg,

I'll bet as an EMT, you've seen your fair share of motorcyclists scraped off the road.

I have a friend who, ironically, is nicknamed "Lucky". He has been hit 3 times, all of which were not his fault and has two stickers on the windshield of his Heritage Softail.

One says, "crippled old biker bastards", and the second, "It's not the destination, it's the journey", the second I really like and try to practice.

He recently had a helicopter ride to the hospital trauma unit and was hit by an uninsured motorist and has mounting medical bills and a reconstructed shoulder.


At those speeds, you have zero chances of surviving or reacting and will likely take out someone else.



Slow down dude, enjoy the scenery.

[G G]

Originally Posted by floydpink

Greg,

I'll bet as an EMT, you've seen your fair share of motorcyclists scraped off the road.

A few. I ride myself, but not at those speeds. I have never had a gun pulled on me by a police officer either, or even stopped while riding. I guess the crazy cops just don't see that much value in pulling over someone who mostly obeys the traffic laws.

[floydpink]

Originally Posted by ggainey

A few. I ride myself, but not at those speeds. I have never had a gun pulled on me by a police officer either, or even stopped while riding. I guess the crazy cops just don't see that much value in pulling over someone who mostly obeys the traffic laws.

Personally, I think the whole "cops hate bikers" thing is not true and wave to the Sheriffs on Road Kings I see around me and have had no problems with any.

I'm also careful to pass judgement on someone who faces danger and split second decisions every day to protect the public for relatively low pay.

This was the scene of my crime and no cows were harmed by my actions...


The problem on this particular day was Jack's has a rib special on wednesdays and the chimney was smokin, that means they're open, and the ribs don't last long and neither do the beans...

Anyone would have done the same in my situation..

[St. Lou Stu]

Originally Posted by newcigarz

I have watched the video multiple times.

3) I think that even though the LEO has a gun out in "hunt" mode as you call it, I don't know that it was necessary for that situation, and I don't know how the rider or myself for that matter would be able to determine this was a cop and not some road rager.

Me too, and the one thing I did see is that the rider did 'push back' from the unmarked vehicle.... was he going to flee? hard to judge.
I saw a badge on the hip of the unmarked right away. That is identification enough. If I can read lips at all, it looks like there was a verbal identification.

Was the officer threatened? If he felt that way, he had every right. It is a helluva lot harder to react to a motorcycle speeding away than it is to immediately take control of the situation as he did. Once control was established, the weapon was holstered. Kudos for that.

All MHO, of course. What do I know?

[1badhog07]

Originally Posted by icehog3

How does it seem to you that this guy's head is swollen? Nice stereotyping.





Exactly, jitzy....and those who haven't lived that reality aren't really credible when commenting on what "5-0" should or shouldn't do.

well tom how do you figure i am sterotyping,as a over-the-road truck driver for over 14 years,i have seen first hand how some cops and dps carry there attitude on there shoulders.NO i am not saying all law enforcement are bad,in fact many of them have went out of there way to help me out when i broke down,and i have a few law enforcement friends here in laredo,so i can only comment on my experiences...

[jitzy]

Originally Posted by 1badhog07

well tom how do you figure i am sterotyping

That was just as much a stereotype as saying "to many" black people steal or "to many" irish guys are drunks thats why its called stereotyping. Look I don't think you hate all cops but your statement was wrong

Originally Posted by jitzy

That was just as much a stereotype as saying "to many" black people steal or "to many" irish guys are drunks thats why its called stereotyping. Look I don't think you hate all cops but your statement was wrong

Maybe this one will better get the point across:

http://www.examiner.com/x-6121-Oklah...ahoma-I40-case

http://www.newcriminologist.com/arti...d=161&nid=2138

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Neuromancer

an attack of a maniacal gun waving thug-cop...

running up waving a gun and grabbing the bike which he had no right to do...

waving a gun in his face yelling at him to get off the bike

did it catch the cop acting like a wild man? Yep

I've already been in one showdown with a bunch of gun-waving cop-thugs,

all these f'ing cops have Wyatt Earp complexes these days and don't feel they have to obey the laws they're sworn to protect

violation of his civil rights

the cops there have acted like the jack-booted thugs they are...

I must have watched a different video than you watched, Marc.

Originally Posted by 1badhog07

i think too many cops head swells up when they get a badge and gun.

How are you NOT stereotyping? That is akin to me saying "I think too many truckers become amphetamine junkies and serial killers".

[neoflex]

For anyone wondering, here is the vid with audio http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHjjF...layer_embedded and the cop clearly does not announce he is a cop until much later after his firearm is drawn. I try not to ride too crazy although on an empty country road I may speed a bit and be a bit of a hooligan but would never attempt this on a freeway or crowded street or a street with any other traffic but had this been me after watching the vid with audio, I prob would have done my best to haul ass out of there as I would have thought I was either being robbed or this guy was a road raged cager. I dunno, I'm not a cop and I respect the job they have to do but this guy should have clearly announced who he was as he exited the car. The fact that he didn't makes me want to think he let his emotions get the better of him. Thank god it didn't play out this way but what if the biker was a carrying a firearm with a CCW and he pulled his sidearm in defense not knowing who this guy was, it could have been an even uglier scene although even if this were the case I would probably try and run from a guy with a gun rather than pull a firearm as he would have been at a major disadvantage but what if? Not trying to say the guy on the bike was not being a douche but I think this could have been handled a little more professionally and the raid just added insult to injury.

[Neuromancer]

Originally Posted by icehog3

I must have watched a different video than you watched, Marc.

Video or no video, I've already been on the barrel end of a cops gun and I was unarmed and pretty defenseless, considering I'm 63 and walk with a cane...they have a Wyat Earp complex...the cop had no business even pulling his gun as he did for traffic stop even if the rider was going like a bat out of hell...pull out a ticket book fine, and as far as pulling out the badge verses gun concept, he was after a guy on a crotch rocket...there was no indication from anything that the cop needed to have his gun out even for one second and that makes him wrong...and compounding the situation by raiding the guy's house is double wrong...I hope he gets a good attorney and sues their asses off...

[icehog3]

They all have a Wyatt Earp complex? Guess I better go see a psychotherapist.

So if he had pulled out his ticket book, and the cyclist had pulled out a gun, I would be attending yet another cop's funeral.

I've been on the barrel end of guns too, and I unholster my weapon when dealing with the unknown often. I don't point it or put my finger on the trigger unless it looks like a deadly force situation. The cop in the video didn't point his either, it appeared to me that as soon as he realized he wasn't in danger he reholstered.

I am sorry you have had some bad experiences with cops, Marc. No need to generalize though. I have known cops who were killed by people who were older than age 63, and I have known cops that were killed by people who were physically handicapped. I will continue to unholster my weapon in situations similar to this, so that my Dad doesn't have to attend a cop's funeral.

[1badhog07]

Originally Posted by icehog3

I must have watched a different video than you watched, Marc.



How are you NOT stereotyping? That is akin to me saying "I think too many truckers become amphetamine junkies and serial killers".

That is because some truckers are,speed junkies and etc,well tom just leave it that.we can go on back and forth about this..

[Neuromancer]

Okay, Tom...the guy was speeding, doing 100+ on a crotch rocket...why would any cop automatically think it was a gun situation and pull his weapon out of his holster? Do you do that every time you stop someone for speeding or running a red light? I think the cop went way overboard on his reaction to a guy on a crotch rocket...we've all seen them flying down the highway at 100+...you should see what they're like on I-95 coming out of Miami...why does that warrent this cop pulling out his piece automatically? Do you do that for traffic stops? Just cause someone's doing 100?

[68TriShield]

I disagree Marc.

[jitzy]

If you look at the video the marked car was right there also, he didn't come later he was right there so yes this jackass knew what he was doing. Like I said as for pulling the gun, if you run from the cops theres usually a reason. I would of had my firearm out in that situation too and like him holstered it when I saw I didn't need it out. We could all argue this till were blue in the face and get no where with it but I'm gonna end my stance on this with this, I wear a ballistic vest at work everyday, winter and summer alike and its not on me cause its cool or makes me look bad ass I wear it cause the fact of the matter is I need to. Every job I go to and every car stop I do has the potential to end badly and when one of those stops happens to end with a 100+ mph chase then yes the gun comes out.

[SeanGAR]

Cops are shot and killed at routine traffic stops all the time. This was a stop of somebody not just breaking a traffic law, but endangering the lives of others around them. The moron on the bike has already proven that he does not care about other people; the officer here did the smart thing, pull your weapon, have it at ready, and holster it when the situation is under control.

The punk on the motorcycle needs a good beating in my opinion.

[replicant_argent]

Just a side note on the "if the douchebag on the bike had been a CCW holder" front.

CCW holders, are, in overwhelming statistical fact, about 10 times less likely to commit ANY kind of crime compared to the general population. A little tidbit that stuck in my brain during my own instruction.

The guy on the bike was a giant flapping douchenozzle for stunting in traffic. The cop should have been screaming "POLICE, GET OFF THE BIKE AND ON THE GROUND" with a badge in one hand AND his gun in the other at the stop, IMO. (Same thing with some dipstick in a car zigzagging in and out of traffic at triple digits, we can't have double standards, now can we?) Backup in a squad was obviously on its way, seconds difference at the stop. That would have been a good situation.
In this world, with the explosion of cheap cameras, 99% of phones, and vid recorders you can strap on just about anything, if you are out your front door, you are in the public eye, all privacy goes sideways. Ham handed warrants, detention, and harassment over this is deplorable.
I do agree with Sean, that guy should be beaten by a group of his peers for his asshattery. They are the ones paying the exorbitant insurance rates by class of bike as a result of his, and actions like his, directly or indirectly.
BTW, I feel the same about guys that ride without helmets and then bust open their skulls.
Let me go get my fireproof suit.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by Neuromancer

Okay, Tom...the guy was speeding, doing 100+ on a crotch rocket...why would any cop automatically think it was a gun situation and pull his weapon out of his holster? Do you do that every time you stop someone for speeding or running a red light? I think the cop went way overboard on his reaction to a guy on a crotch rocket...we've all seen them flying down the highway at 100+...you should see what they're like on I-95 coming out of Miami...why does that warrent this cop pulling out his piece automatically? Do you do that for traffic stops? Just cause someone's doing 100?

Perhaps the Trooper saw the motorcycle as a lethal weapon. Watch any traffic stop and you will see an officer walk up to a pulled over vehicle with his/her hand on their holstered sidearm until they deem the situation safe. In this situation there wasn't time for that with the officer walking up face to face with the perp.

[neoflex]

Originally Posted by jitzy

If you look at the video the marked car was right there also, he didn't come later he was right there so yes this jackass knew what he was doing. Like I said as for pulling the gun, if you run from the cops theres usually a reason. I would of had my firearm out in that situation too and like him holstered it when I saw I didn't need it out. We could all argue this till were blue in the face and get no where with it but I'm gonna end my stance on this with this, I wear a ballistic vest at work everyday, winter and summer alike and its not on me cause its cool or makes me look bad ass I wear it cause the fact of the matter is I need to. Every job I go to and every car stop I do has the potential to end badly and when one of those stops happens to end with a 100+ mph chase then yes the gun comes out.

I just watched the original footage again after reading your thread but if you watch it in it's entirety the guy is far from running from anything and I actually feel a little more sympathy for him. If you watch at the beginning he is moving with the flow of traffic than he gets on it and obviously does a wheelie which is a boneheaded move for a heavily congested I-95 but if you watch from the 1/2 way point to the end the guy is back to moving with the flow of traffic and actually gets passed by a clapped out looking Accord a couple times and even gets passed by an Acura TL a couple times right before he exits the Interstate so he clearly isn't running from anything. Supposedly the cops report said when he exited his vehicle the biker revved the bike as if he were going to run. If you catch the version I posted with audio, that is clearly BS and there was also no mention of the weapon being drawn in the report which I don't know if that is required or not so it may be a moot point.
Yes, if this guy didn't ride like a jackass he wouldn't have been pulled over but who here hasn't done something stupid without thinking and had it happen at the most inopportune time. I know last summer I was on a country back road with no cars and at an intersection as I made a right I got on it a little too hard and the front wheel came up off the ground about two feet for a short distance and there happened to be a cop coming the opposite direction a little distance away and I am sure he saw the headlight go up and back down.
Of course he banged a U-turn and pulled me over which he should have. I was calm and polite using sir and told him that I honestly didn't mean for the front wheel to come up as I knew that was why he pulled me. I told him I deserved a ticket but it was an honest mistake. He was cool about the whole thing ran my license and came back and told me he wasn't going to ticket me and just told me to be more careful and to not ride like an idiot. He was probably also surprised to see a 30+ year old on the bike and not some snot nosed teen but he didn't come out of his car gun drawn and I don't think he needed to nor did the cop in the video. Prob would have been more effective if he came out of the car with badge in hand rather than his weapon. Again, I am not a cop so I may be totally out of line but the guy definitely was not running. If he were the cop wouldn't have a snow balls chance in hell of catching him on that bike on the Interstate, and if he were I doubt he would have kept with the flow of traffic the majority of the video and even stop at the red light behind a line of cars. Not that I ever recommend it as a traffic violation easily becomes a felony but if a bike wants to outrun a car, I would say 95% of the time he is getting away. So the assessment that this guy was running is wrong. I think there are a lot of holes in the story on both sides and both sides are guilty of being wrong and raiding the guys house was clearly questionable at best.
These GoPro helmet cams are becoming very very popular and I have seen other traffic stops taped in videos before and the outcomes were never like this one or even resulted in a warrant and a house being raided. Just go to Youtube and do a search for GoPro and you'll come up with pages of videos. Most of the traffic stops that have been taped are pretty standard even when the bikers were caught being jackasses. I dunno I think both parties on this one need to reflect on their actions and make changes in the future.

[neoflex]

Probably should have played out more like this http://www.youtube.com/user/SuperMot...16/FK6_iAVcfIY