Pete Rose, 20 years later...HOF or not?

[icehog3]

I disagree Vic....I think you would need to clean house in the HOF if being a good person is one of the requirements!

Originally Posted by icehog3

I disagree Vic....I think you would need to clean house in the HOF if being a good person is one of the requirements!

I respect where your coming from Tom. So……you support Simpsons being in Canton? After all, his crimes are completely unconnected to football

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

I respect where your coming from Tom. So……you support Simpsons being in Canton? After all, his crimes are completely unconnected to football

I do, as well as supporting Ogie Oglethorpe's campaign for the Hockey Hall of Fame.

Originally Posted by icehog3

I do, as well as supporting Ogie Oglethorpe's campaign for the Hockey Hall of Fame.

I think we both knownall about my level of hockey knowledge, so you'll have to edumacate me on who Ogie is

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

I think we both knownall about my level of hockey knowledge, so you'll have to edumacate me on who Ogie is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPEaOKI8ubU

[Buckeye Jack]

Most definitely he needs to be let in as a player. You can go in as both a player and a manager. His stats as a player would have made him a first ballot hall of famer.

Because of what he did as a manager, he should never go in as a manager. Had he never managed a baseball game in his life, he would be in. Nothing he did as a player is keeping him out.

[kelmac07]

How can you have the record holder for the most hits ever not be in the Hall of Fame? YES!!!!!!!!!

[Volt]

Originally Posted by kelmac07

How can you have the record holder for the most hits ever not be in the Hall of Fame? YES!!!!!!!!!

hehe, I was waiting on you to chime in. Mr. Baseball!

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by vankleekkw

2. He always bet that his team would win.

We all bet on our own teams to win, in one form or another. This helps drive the desire to win.

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

If he would have admitted to betting on his team immediately would this even be a question? Or is it just because he denied it?

He clearly has the numbers to put in his own wing in the Hall of Fame. Not sure another player can rival the numbers he put up or the passion with which he played the game.

Pete wasn't a nice guy when he was playing. I hear he pissed off a bunch of people both as a player and a manager. His attitude didn't help him out of this situation by any means.

He clearly does have the numbers to open up his own wing! Free Pete!

Originally Posted by shilala

Babe Ruth was an alcoholic who threw women down the stairs regularly.
I won't even get started on Ty Cobb.

Bobby Cox (a future HOFer) beat his wife.
DiMaggio had mob connections.
Mantle was an alcoholic.
John McGraw cheated when the umpire wasn't looking.
The list goes on.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

Bobby Cox (a future HOFer) beat his wife.
DiMaggio had mob connections.
Mantle was an alcoholic.
John McGraw cheated when the umpire wasn't looking.
The list goes on.

That sews up the "you gotta be a good human" to be in the HOF argument pretty well.
People are people.
I play the game like Pete plays the game, always did. He's who taught me.
Not a day did he not give 1000%.
I think he might even love playing ball more than I do. I doubt it though.
Last summer I played softball and stroked two homers with a broken back and hadn't picked up a bat in six months. I also snagged a diving liner at short and had to have the second and third basemen get me off the ground.
I laid in bed for three days after that.
It was worth every minute.

[Ashcan Bill]

I saw Pete play many, many times at Dodger Stadium.

I was there the day he turned around and flipped off the entire left field pavilion. That one didn't make the news.

Letting him in to the Hall of Fame cheapens the institution and degrades the honorable players that have, and will be, admitted.

I vote no.

Only my personal opinion, not worth much.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Ashcan Bill

I saw Pete play many, many times at Dodger Stadium.

I was there the day he turned around and flipped off the entire left field pavilion. That one didn't make the news.

Letting him in to the Hall of Fame cheapens the institution and degrades the honorable players that have, and will be, admitted.

I vote no.

Only my personal opinion, not worth much.

It is worth as much as any of ours.

But what about the less than honorable members of the Hall?...there are quite a few of them.

Originally Posted by kelmac07

How can you have the record holder for the most hits ever not be in the Hall of Fame? YES!!!!!!!!!

No. ****ing. ****.

[VTDragon]

Most of us who watch and enjoy sports do so under the assumption that the games are on the up and up. Otherwise all sports would be like professional wrestling. Sure, players will try lots of stuff, chemical and whatever to try to improve their performance, but I think most of us can at least accept that they are not fixing the games, they are trying to improve.

I do not think the same can be said of a gambler. All a gambler cares about is that the team he bet on ends up on top. Pete maintains that he never bet against his team, of course at one time he maintained that he didn't bet at all. Clearly he cannot be believed.

I do not dispute his many accomplishments and am very leary of applying criterion of things done outside of baseball to admittance into the Hall, but in this case, because gambling goes to the very integrity of the game, I think he shouuld be banned.

[AD720]

Originally Posted by VTDragon

Most of us who watch and enjoy sports do so under the assumption that the games are on the up and up. Otherwise all sports would be like professional wrestling. Sure, players will try lots of stuff, chemical and whatever to try to improve their performance, but I think most of us can at least accept that they are not fixing the games, they are trying to improve.

I do not think the same can be said of a gambler. All a gambler cares about is that the team he bet on ends up on top. Pete maintains that he never bet against his team, of course at one time he maintained that he didn't bet at all. Clearly he cannot be believed.

I do not dispute his many accomplishments and am very leary of applying criterion of things done outside of baseball to admittance into the Hall, but in this case, because gambling goes to the very integrity of the game, I think he shouuld be banned.

So gambling goes to the very integrity of the game but steroids do not?

Disagree.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by VTDragon

Pete maintains that he never bet against his team, of course at one time he maintained that he didn't bet at all. Clearly he cannot be believed.

You don't have to take Pete's word on that one.
A lawyer investigated Pete's gambling (The Dowd Report). Found 100's of instances of gambling. Not one bet was ever placed against his team.

[VirtualSmitty]

I voted no. Though i'm not sure I can really offer a fair opinion. He retired when I was 4, I never saw him play. I grew up with Pete Rose the joke. Gambler, liar, hustler, chicken suit, do anything for a buck Pete Rose. I just can't see putting such a low life next to guys like Cal Ripken or Hank Aaaron, who weren't just great ball players, but real ambassadors for the sport.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by shilala

You don't have to take Pete's word on that one.
A lawyer investigated Pete's gambling (The Dowd Report). Found 100's of instances of gambling. Not one bet was ever placed against his team.

I might agree with those who want him to finish the lifetime ban, as long as he gets inducted the year that he dies. His record as a player deserves to be honored. How can the greatest hitter in the game not be recognized in Cooperstown? As long as he gets in, I'm fine with it. I just hope I'm around to see it.

I will admit that I'm very biased on this subject, as I'm a die-hard Reds fan. We're known for three things: being the first professional baseball team, the Big Red Machine, and Charlie Hustle. (No offense to all of the other great Reds players through the years that weren't a part of the BRM: Larkin, Sabo, Davis, F. Robinson, O'Neill, and countless others.)

Originally Posted by shilala

You don't have to take Pete's word on that one.
A lawyer investigated Pete's gambling (The Dowd Report). Found 100's of instances of gambling. Not one bet was ever placed against his team.

not finding evidence of his having placed bets against his team is not the same thing as saying he didn't do it.

I think that he should be let in the day after his ban expires! I wouldn't lift the ban which was set for "life" not forever.