What is a very good Espresso machine

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by germantown rob

Not my skin, I don't think it was, but the skin milk gets when burned.

I have the whole aloe vera plant in my kitchen. I have a knack for burning myself so I cut some off and tape it on the burn(s) as needed.

Thanks for the info on the dispersion screen. Is not taking the screw out hot for me or is it bad for the threads?
I tried some water out of the group head after a bunch of shots where pulled and the machine had sat for a while, very nasty stuff and brown. I like to backflush after shots if I know I won't be having another for a while, it is amazing what flows out each time. How often do you backflush with detergent?

Heat and accumulated grunge will cause the dispersion screen screw to get very snug; it's easy (well, easier) to remove when cold and, if hot, it's no trick to strip the screw slot (which you totally don't want to do). Be sure to use a properly sized screwdriver that fills the slot without sloppiness or you will strip the slot; way better to replace with a phillips, torx or allen machine screw BEFORE the catastrophe.

Backflush: start with a hot machine. Add a teaspoon or so of CleanCaf, Urnex (whatever floats your boat) and some hot water to the PF with a blank basket and stir it up for a few seconds as if to dissolve some of it. Keeping the basket rim clean and level, seat it firmly in the grouphead. Take out the drip pan grate and then hit the brew button "ON" until the pump goes quiet then "OFF". Repeat the process a few times until you're satisfied the Urnex and water have worked all the way thru the solenoid and are draining into the drip pan. Let it sit for a few hours then do the ON/OFF thing a few more times until it drains clean. Remove the pf from the grouphead, wash it off and repeat without the Urnex until nothing but clean water is showing in the drip pan as you cycle the brew pump "ON" and "OFF".

Oscar note: if you run brew water and do the "portafilter wiggle" back and forth from loose to snug (to rinse grounds off) you may end up seizing the pf into the grouphead. Doing the wiggle can force water under the grouphead gasket, and, later, make it very had to free up a snugged pf without a lot of muscle. Run brew water over a pf to clean it or heat it up but don't lock- or gently snug it into the grouphead while the pump is on.

[floydpink]

Great info. I unscrew the screen regularly and clean but was warned to NEVER backflush a Gaggia, so I haven't tried.

[germantown rob]

Originally Posted by floydpink

Great info. I unscrew the screen regularly and clean but was warned to NEVER backflush a Gaggia, so I haven't tried.

You have a baby correct? I know the new ones have a 3-way solenoid valve so you can backflush but that may something new.

[floydpink]

My Gaggia has the 3 way solenoid but they insist it will kill the pump if you backflush. Not sure, but not taking any chances.

[germantown rob]

Originally Posted by floydpink

My Gaggia has the 3 way solenoid but they insist it will kill the pump if you backflush. Not sure, but not taking any chances.

I do remember someone asking this at CG and there gaggia saying not to backflush yet they include backflush cleaner in the new shipments. I will keep my eyes open for more info and get it to you if I find it.

[germantown rob]

Originally Posted by floydpink

My Gaggia has the 3 way solenoid but they insist it will kill the pump if you backflush. Not sure, but not taking any chances.

This is from sweet maria's..."The 3-Way Valve: this does cost more. Do you need a 3-way valve to make perfect espresso? No! But it means the machine automatically releases high tank pressure so the "puck" is drier after extraction, and you can clean the machine by backflushing. Note that Gaggia USA does not officially support backflushing because it may splash hot water out the release valve into the drip tray. This is a legal concern - you can backflush but you do it at your own risk."

from their gaggia pagehttp://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.gaggia.php.

[floydpink]

well, if someone could explain the benefit of backflushing opposed to a good cleaning and descaling, I might try to figure it out.

I guess I am under the impression that as long as my machine is performing great, like it is, I'm leaving it alone.

Edit: Never mind, my OCD got the best of me and I just ordered a blind filter from WLL and will be backflushing.

How often is this normally done???

Last question:

I keep quite a good supply of Urnex Dezcale around. Is this the right stuff to use on a backflush??

[germantown rob]

Originally Posted by floydpink

well, if someone could explain the benefit of backflushing opposed to a good cleaning and descaling, I might try to figure it out.

I guess I am under the impression that as long as my machine is performing great, like it is, I'm leaving it alone.

Edit: Never mind, my OCD got the best of me and I just ordered a blind filter from WLL and will be backflushing.

How often is this normally done???

Last question:

I keep quite a good supply of Urnex Dezcale around. Is this the right stuff to use on a backflush??

After every shot some grounds and oils are staying up in your group head. The same stuff that is left behind after a shot in the cup that dries and needs a sponge to clean. I backflush after every time I am done a session, not if I am coming back in 1/2 hour but it only takes 45 minutes or less for coffee oils to go rancid and I don't want that off taste to be added to my next cup. So I will backflush 2-4 times a day with just water.

The Urnex Dezcale is not what you want to use but Urnex makes other products designed for backflushing. Not sure they are that different since I believe they all use citric acid in different proportions. Joe Glow seems to be the mildest of the detergents and I might try some of that out but right now I use Urnex tabs right now once a week, thats a lie since I have done it twice in 9 days but my second cleaning came out very clean so I jumped the gun. A shop would do it every night, a real clean freak may also do it every night but once a week will keep things clean with hot water backflushes done often.


I will post some links later on some more exact info.

[floydpink]

Originally Posted by germantown rob

This is from sweet maria's..."The 3-Way Valve: this does cost more. Do you need a 3-way valve to make perfect espresso? No! But it means the machine automatically releases high tank pressure so the "puck" is drier after extraction, and you can clean the machine by backflushing. Note that Gaggia USA does not officially support backflushing because it may splash hot water out the release valve into the drip tray. This is a legal concern - you can backflush but you do it at your own risk."

from their gaggia pagehttp://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.gaggia.php.

Not to be argumentative, but I just read this and thought other Gaggia owners may find it interesting..

The New Baby does not have external tubes as your diagram suggests. the solenoid mounts to the group housing and has internal channels to the boiler and group (and below to drip). The solenoid on the new baby is easily clogged so the VERY minimal benefit that might be had from back flushing is not worthwhile in my opinion... I would prefer to run water forward through the group

[floydpink]

In any event, I ordered the blind filter and cleaner and will try backflushing.

It takes a bit of time, but I have found great benefits from taking off the shower screen and cleaning it by hand as well as sometimes taking out the two hex bolts and removing the group head, soaking it, and really giving the whole grouphead a good cleaning that I'm not sure a backflush will achieve.

I have no idea about other machines, but after studying diagrams and getting out my tools, I am beginning to get very familiar with all the inner parts of the Gaggia.

[germantown rob]

Originally Posted by floydpink

Not to be argumentative, but I just read this and thought other Gaggia owners may find it interesting..

The New Baby does not have external tubes as your diagram suggests. the solenoid mounts to the group housing and has internal channels to the boiler and group (and below to drip). The solenoid on the new baby is easily clogged so the VERY minimal benefit that might be had from back flushing is not worthwhile in my opinion... I would prefer to run water forward through the group

I have been looking at what folks at CG and HB have to say on the matter and well I got nothing but controversy. I think you made an important point about how easy it is to remove the group head and clean it that way and those that say not to backflush point this out. Those that say to do backflushing point out what a 3 way solenoid is, how it works, and it is cheap to replace. If Gaggia's solenoid can't handle it then it will fail by just normal use anyway. The point of the 3 way is to remove pressure after a shot is done, in other words it is backflushing oily residue and grinds. If you have ever ground to fine and chocked your machine you in essence just backflushed it again with oily gritty back flow. Every post I saw saying not to do it does not supply any real info as to why not, no diagrams, not failures (other than I backflused a few times and now I have this ___ problem). People that say to backflush with a 3 way solenoid do supply all the needed info on why, how, diagrams, etc.

I am not saying you should do this, you keep a clean machine your way and that works for you. There is a chance that since you have not done this before you might push a buildup of crude right into your solenoid and make it fail. This would suck and without a back up solenoid may keep you from liquid gold till you replace it. If you choose not to do this the cleaner you bought should work fine for all you're cleaning needs so it won't be wasted.

I would like to add that the Silvia has the same controversy with far more people saying backflushing should be done and so forth.