Bugs are Bad

[Ranger_B]

Well I wish I had saved a pic but at our Friday smoke in my local shop a guy brought in a Anejo 48 and it had been bored through in about 5 spots by beetles. Now these had left the shop and been in his humi at home so I am not sure where and when the bugs got there. I just thought it was weird to see them in there under the cedar and the celo. Anyone else seen bugs in an Anejo ? Bummer but without question the owner gave him a fresh smoke and then we went through the rest of the cigars in that box. I Know the B&M owner is a bit worried.

[enlightenedcigar]

Never in an Anejo but they are in close to every stick. Can't get that humidity too high.

[dwoodward]

Originally Posted by enlightenedcigar

Never in an Anejo but they are in close to every stick. Can't get that humidity too high.

I am not sure about humidity... usually bugs hatch because of the temperature the cigars are stored at.

[CoreyD]

what temp is that?

[Cornrow_Wallis]

I think the general consensus is over 70* is bad.

[neoflex]

Usually it's 75 that you need to start worrying. I went into a local Tinderbox over the weekend and walked into the store and thought it was a bit hot. As I walked into their walk-in it was down right blazing. After walking around a bit the guy working at the store asked if I needed any help and I replied "Just looking thanks." He proceeded to try and inform me of what I should be smoking so I cut him off and mentioned how hot it was in the humidor. He proceeded to tell me that the humidity and the temperature need to marry at 80. So me being a wise @ss and already annoyed that he was trying to tell me what to smoke without even asking what type of cigars I enjoy and basically talking down to me the whole time said "So you don't think 80 percent is too high?" He proceeded to tell me that this is where the temp and humidity should marry. (Sheesh this guy loves to use the word marry when describing humidity and temperature) I decided to play with him some more since clueless people intrigue me and replied with "So beetles being able to hatch above 75 degrees doesn't worry you? I can tell at this point I annoyed him enough and he responded with "Well, we haven't had any beetles hatch on us yet." At this point I think I pissed him off enough that he decided to leave me alone. I did pick up a La Sirena as I have been wanting to try these but being it was like a sponge it will be spending a few weeks out of the humidor to dry out and no where near my cabinet as the temps in their humidor have me a little nervous about ever introducing anything from them in with my stash. I do chat with the manager there from time to time and I saw him yesterday and mentioned it being a bit hot in the humidor and his only response was, "Yeah it's a little humid in there today" This was kind of surprising to me to see how hot and humid it was in there especially since this is their flagship store for Charlotte. The temp gauge on my truck read 77 out in the parking garage which their store leads into and walking out into the garage felt like I just had walked into an air conditioned room compared to their store. It was that bad.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by enlightenedcigar

Never in an Anejo but they are in close to every stick. Can't get that humidity too high.

Not exactly. Are you thinking of mold possibly? As mold spores are everywhere in the air and high humidity will cause mold to go bonkers.

Every leaf has the potential for eggs, but rarely is such the case. Not to mention, besides all the steps taken at the factories to prevent beetles getting into the cured leaves (they wouldn't survive the fermentation temps) many manufacturers and some large retailers also blast freeze their cigars for a further layer of protection.

The eggs can hatch at any temperature above about 64F and 50RH although prolonged exposure (a few weeks) to that temperature will kill the eggs. Larvae won't even develop at less than 62F. Once you start getting close to 70F, you're into the risk zone and the beetles have to fly to mate and they won't form wings at temps less than 71.5F, so over that, and you can start perpetuating multiple generations of the lil' bastards.

[mike]

A lot of knowledge here, I love it.

[T.G]

Here, good info from SilverFox in this thread with links to scientific whitepapers:
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7919

[Bill86]

Originally Posted by T.G

Here, good info from SilverFox in this thread with links to scientific whitepapers:
http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7919

Didn't you say something about Habanos using a blast freezer as of like 4-5 years ago? I'm guessing that would negate the chances of beetles by 95%+?

Either way it's the summer so I moved my coolidor into the corner of the basement.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Bill86

Didn't you say something about Habanos using a blast freezer as of like 4-5 years ago? I'm guessing that would negate the chances of beetles by 95%+?

Either way it's the summer so I moved my coolidor into the corner of the basement.

Habanos went from fumigation to blast freezing sometime around 2005, and, yes, it could have been me, or any number of other individuals, who mentioned it in one of our discussions, as it's fairly well known info.

The effectiveness of blast freezing has proven to be very high, so long as all of the cigars being frozen are allowed to drop to the needed temps for the required times.

One of the things to keep in mind though, is that it is possible for the cigars to be re-exposed post treatment. Blast freezing, just as fumigation used to (when it worked), only kills what is there at the time. Exposure and infection at a later date is still possible.

[Bill86]

Good point, I got my cigars in the basement for the summer. 65/65 right now.

[HollywoodQue]

Originally Posted by Bill86

Good point, I got my cigars in the basement for the summer. 65/65 right now.

Good idea Bill, I will do the same before tempts start to rise in Detroit.

[emopunker2004]

sheeeeeeeet we ain't got no stinkin basements, I'm in Florida yo.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by T.G

Not exactly. Are you thinking of mold possibly? As mold spores are everywhere in the air and high humidity will cause mold to go bonkers.

Every leaf has the potential for eggs, but rarely is such the case. Not to mention, besides all the steps taken at the factories to prevent beetles getting into the cured leaves (they wouldn't survive the fermentation temps) many manufacturers and some large retailers also blast freeze their cigars for a further layer of protection.

The eggs can hatch at any temperature above about 64F and 50RH although prolonged exposure (a few weeks) to that temperature will kill the eggs. Larvae won't even develop at less than 62F. Once you start getting close to 70F, you're into the risk zone and the beetles have to fly to mate and they won't form wings at temps less than 71.5F, so over that, and you can start perpetuating multiple generations of the lil' bastards.

Adam's wicked smaat!! And that Silverfox article is great reading.

[wayner123]

I agree with most everything you wrote except this:

Originally Posted by T.G

Once you start getting close to 70F, you're into the risk zone and the beetles have to fly to mate and they won't form wings at temps less than 71.5F, so over that, and you can start perpetuating multiple generations of the lil' bastards.

The article here:http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...E4A4D6A.d03t02

Shows them flying at 13C (55.4F). You and I have had this discussion before. I would greatly appreciate the article you cite for the temp of 71.5F. The article I linked shows a constant temp of 13C.


Just as a bonus, here is a good looking pdf on the subject of beetles: http://www.smcs.se/Meet%20the%20beet...mer%202008.pdf

Mind you, it's from cigar magazine. So take it for what it's worth.

[guitar4001]

Originally Posted by neoflex

Usually it's 75 that you need to start worrying. I went into a local Tinderbox over the weekend and walked into the store and thought it was a bit hot. As I walked into their walk-in it was down right blazing. After walking around a bit the guy working at the store asked if I needed any help and I replied "Just looking thanks." He proceeded to try and inform me of what I should be smoking so I cut him off and mentioned how hot it was in the humidor. He proceeded to tell me that the humidity and the temperature need to marry at 80. So me being a wise @ss and already annoyed that he was trying to tell me what to smoke without even asking what type of cigars I enjoy and basically talking down to me the whole time said "So you don't think 80 percent is too high?" He proceeded to tell me that this is where the temp and humidity should marry. (Sheesh this guy loves to use the word marry when describing humidity and temperature) I decided to play with him some more since clueless people intrigue me and replied with "So beetles being able to hatch above 75 degrees doesn't worry you? I can tell at this point I annoyed him enough and he responded with "Well, we haven't had any beetles hatch on us yet." At this point I think I pissed him off enough that he decided to leave me alone. I did pick up a La Sirena as I have been wanting to try these but being it was like a sponge it will be spending a few weeks out of the humidor to dry out and no where near my cabinet as the temps in their humidor have me a little nervous about ever introducing anything from them in with my stash. I do chat with the manager there from time to time and I saw him yesterday and mentioned it being a bit hot in the humidor and his only response was, "Yeah it's a little humid in there today" This was kind of surprising to me to see how hot and humid it was in there especially since this is their flagship store for Charlotte. The temp gauge on my truck read 77 out in the parking garage which their store leads into and walking out into the garage felt like I just had walked into an air conditioned room compared to their store. It was that bad.

The local cigar humidor here in Leavenworth, KS is a suprisingly well-stocked walk-in in a convienience store, BUT...the one and only time that I dropped in the humidor I thought that I had walked into the jungles of the Congo. It was easily over 80 degrees and maybe even a bit hotter. The humidity was so high that you could see mist wafting through the air. My wife and I were visibly wet when we left the humidor. I have NEVER seen anything like this before.

Oh, and we saw several boxes with mold. In one instance, mold completely covered the cigars displayed in one box. Maybe if I am feeling up to it, I will go in there with a camera and document the poor state of this humidor. Hopefully, they have changed their humidification process.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by guitar4001

Oh, and we saw several boxes with mold. .

In a B&M thats "plume", if you had asked the staff they would have explained that to you. Everywhere else its mold, but at a B&M its very desirable

It still amazes me that there are people that own/run cigar shops that have absolutely no clue as to how to store their merchandise.

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by md4958

In a B&M thats "plume", if you had asked the staff they would have explained that to you. Everywhere else its mold, but at a B&M its very desirable

It still amazes me that there are people that own/run cigar shops that have absolutely no clue as to how to store their merchandise.

While I agree with you, I doubt you have people opening your humidor, coolidor, etc all day long. I think that some shops which have high humidity are trying to combat the fluctuations. However, they are going about it in the wrong way, imo.

[jonumberone]

Originally Posted by wayner123

I think that some shops which have high humidity are trying to combat the fluctuations. However, they are going about it in the wrong way, imo.

Had this discussion with Kevin from Winston humidors on Saturday.
He said he keeps his humidor at home in the 63 range, but in the shop he keeps it higher to make the sticks more durable.
He explained that people are constantly coming in and squeezing the sticks and dropping them and the higher RH saves him from losing his stock to busted wrappers.
It made sense to me from a business stand point.