How do you describe Complexity??

wayner123 · 03-29-2010, 08:28 AM

Last night I was enjoying a cigar that I am going to review. As I smoked I was thinking of different ways of describing the flavors I got. Afterwards I had one taste that I couldn't really describe, and I thought to myself "is that what some might call complex"?

So I wanted to pose the question here and get all of your thoughts on it. How do you describe complexity?

To me I have always described complexity as a change of flavors. IE; one minute you taste hints of vanilla, the next a little spice, the next puff something else, etc. But in my recalling of flavors last night, I could see where someone might describe complexity as flavors they can't describe. A mixture of flavors instead of singular flavor that changes. So what say you?

lightning9191 · 03-29-2010, 08:30 AM

I'd go with a little of both views.

guado · 03-29-2010, 08:40 AM

I stopped reviewing a while ago as it was killing my enjoyment of cigars.

I will say this. IMO Complexity is when a cigar gives you so much more than just a simple flavor and smoke. A cigar that boggles the mind that you wonder..."WOW, that was awesome and I am not sure why!" Even a cigar that has 2 or 3 changes through the smoke make not be complex IMO.

Some cigars are good, they taste nice and when they are done, they're done. The complex ones for me are the ones that when done just make me sit back and reflect on that cigar for quite sometime. Those are also generally the cigars that I actually don't put out around the halfway point or so...

T.G · 03-29-2010, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayner123

To me I have always described complexity as a change of flavors. IE; one minute you taste hints of vanilla, the next a little spice, the next puff something else, etc.

I personally would call that "dynamic".

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayner123

A mixture of flavors instead of singular flavor that changes.

That is precisely how I would describe "complex" also; a mixture of multiple interrelated flavors going on at one time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayner123

But in my recalling of flavors last night, I could see where someone might describe complexity as flavors they can't describe.

I would call those "flavors I can't describe".

icehog3 · 03-29-2010, 09:01 AM

Multiple changes in flavor.

A "marrying" of flavors that is unusual.

These are two things I consider complexity in a cigar, but I an open to others' interpretations if they ring true to me.

elderboy02 · 03-29-2010, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icehog3

Multiple changes in flavor.

A "marrying" of flavors that is unusual.

These are two things I consider complexity in a cigar, but I an open to others' interpretations if they ring true to me.

akumushi · 03-29-2010, 10:34 AM

For me, for a cigar to be complex, it has to have two factors, a combination of multiple flavors at once, with at least 3 phase changes throughout the cigar. A cigar with a bunch of flavors all at once that I cant tease out and indentify is generally "muddled" while complexity usually implies balance to me.

icehog3 · 03-29-2010, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akumushi

For me, for a cigar to be complex, it has to have two factors, a combination of multiple flavors at once, with at least 3 phase changes throughout the cigar. A cigar with a bunch of flavors all at once that I cant tease out and indentify is generally "muddled" while complexity usually implies balance to me.

Good point, Clayton.

wolfandwhisky · 04-02-2010, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akumushi

For me, for a cigar to be complex, it has to have two factors, a combination of multiple flavors at once, with at least 3 phase changes throughout the cigar. A cigar with a bunch of flavors all at once that I cant tease out and indentify is generally "muddled" while complexity usually implies balance to me.

I agree with Clayton - I want multiple flavors that are balanced, where the flavors complement or otherwise benefit each other.

For example, almonds, toffee, and vanilla can create a great balance (ie Fuente Magnum) where seaweed and pepper do not work well with mocha and cream (ie RP Edge Maduro).

akumushi · 04-02-2010, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfandwhisky

I agree with Clayton - I want multiple flavors that are balanced, where the flavors complement or otherwise benefit each other.

For example, almonds, toffee, and vanilla can create a great balance (ie Fuente Magnum) where seaweed and pepper do not work well with mocha and cream (ie RP Edge Maduro).

poker · 03-29-2010, 12:20 PM

Quote:

According to Wikipedia:

In general usage, complexity tends to be used to characterize something with many parts in intricate arrangement.

I would think the term "complex" can mean different things to different folks when referencing a cigar.

wayner123 · 03-29-2010, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poker

I would think the term "complex" can mean different things to different folks when referencing a cigar.

I fully agree, that's exactly why I posed the question.

poker · 03-29-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayner123

I fully agree, that's exactly why I posed the question.

Gotcha. Well, complex to me it means a changing and layering of flavors.

hotreds · 03-29-2010, 01:14 PM

It's complicated!

Subvet642 · 03-29-2010, 02:15 PM

Complexity is anything I can't taste.

Bigwaved · 04-04-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poker

I would think the term "complex" can mean different things to different folks when referencing a cigar.

That is exactly what came to my mind (except it may not have been put into words as well as Kelly, but he is old. He should be a better 'splainer

). With most things in life, faced with the exact same thing, some may find it complex, some may not, depending on so many factors like experience, for example. With cigars, it is no different, I believe.

mosesbotbol · 03-29-2010, 12:25 PM

Multiple layers of flavors. Some may be more pronounced or I have an anfinity to recognize, while others I notice, but do not know what they are. Smoking with someone with different taste and palate will help you discover new flavors in anything.

As much as I like to smoke with people who love the same cigars as I... I want to smoke with someone who may dislike my favorites. I am curious to explore their perspective some.

Woody, mossy, and beany would describe the prolife I like most in cigars. Also lead to why I may talk up one cigar or be indifferent to another...

longknocker · 03-29-2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Multiple layers of flavors. Some may be more pronounced or I have an anfinity to recognize, while others I notice, but do not know what they are. Smoking with someone with different taste and palate will help you discover new flavors in anything.

As much as I like to smoke with people who love the same cigars as I... I want to smoke with someone who may dislike my favorites. I am curious to explore their perspective some.

Woody, mossy, and beany would describe the prolife I like most in cigars. Also lead to why I may talk up one cigar or be indifferent to another...

Complex To Me Means That I Can Discern A Variety Of Flavors. Don't Mean To Thread Jack, But What Do You Mean By "Woody, Mossy, & Beany"?
Thanks!

mosesbotbol · 03-29-2010, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longknocker

Complex To Me Means That I Can Discern A Variety Of Flavors. Don't Mean To Thread Jack, But What Do You Mean By "Woody, Mossy, & Beany"?
Thanks!

Cigars that have wood flavors which fall into moss like flavors. Punch is known for such notes in their cigars and also something that comes from age. The bean flavors include coffee, cocoa, actual beans like mung or vanila. Quite pronounced in Cohiba and Montecristo, but also to degrees in many cigars.

Others may prefer cigars that are spicy, herbaceous, floral, or leather tasting.

03-29-2010, 12:39 PM

For me it is both the changing of flavors and multi flavors at the same time. But most all what matters is that you are enjoying what you are smoking!

03-29-2010, 08:28 AM	#1
wayner123 Country Gentleman Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Deltona, FL Posts: 2,351 Trading: (159)	How do you describe Complexity?? Last night I was enjoying a cigar that I am going to review. As I smoked I was thinking of different ways of describing the flavors I got. Afterwards I had one taste that I couldn't really describe, and I thought to myself "is that what some might call complex"? So I wanted to pose the question here and get all of your thoughts on it. How do you describe complexity? To me I have always described complexity as a change of flavors. IE; one minute you taste hints of vanilla, the next a little spice, the next puff something else, etc. But in my recalling of flavors last night, I could see where someone might describe complexity as flavors they can't describe. A mixture of flavors instead of singular flavor that changes. So what say you? __________________ 'It is an honor for a man to keep aloof from strife; But every fool will be quarrelling.'

03-29-2010, 08:30 AM	#2
lightning9191 I think I'm normal... Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Kevin Posts: 1,007 Trading: (8)	Re: How do you describe Complexity?? I'd go with a little of both views. __________________ I eat gummy bears by tearing them limb from limb and eating their heads last.

03-29-2010, 08:40 AM	#3
guado OCD cigar hoarder Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tampa Posts: 379 Trading: (4)	Re: How do you describe Complexity?? I stopped reviewing a while ago as it was killing my enjoyment of cigars. I will say this. IMO Complexity is when a cigar gives you so much more than just a simple flavor and smoke. A cigar that boggles the mind that you wonder..."WOW, that was awesome and I am not sure why!" Even a cigar that has 2 or 3 changes through the smoke make not be complex IMO. Some cigars are good, they taste nice and when they are done, they're done. The complex ones for me are the ones that when done just make me sit back and reflect on that cigar for quite sometime. Those are also generally the cigars that I actually don't put out around the halfway point or so... __________________

03-29-2010, 09:01 AM	#5
icehog3 Admiral Douchebag Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Tom Location: Clermont, Kentucky Posts: 71,305 Trading: (60)	Re: How do you describe Complexity?? Multiple changes in flavor. A "marrying" of flavors that is unusual. These are two things I consider complexity in a cigar, but I an open to others' interpretations if they ring true to me. __________________ Thanks Dave, Julian, James, Kelly, Peter, Gerry, Dave, Mo, Frank, Týr and Mr. Mark!

03-29-2010, 10:34 AM	#7
akumushi Habanos Apologist Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,298 Trading: (11)	Re: How do you describe Complexity?? For me, for a cigar to be complex, it has to have two factors, a combination of multiple flavors at once, with at least 3 phase changes throughout the cigar. A cigar with a bunch of flavors all at once that I cant tease out and indentify is generally "muddled" while complexity usually implies balance to me. __________________ "Eventually, however, every ash must drop. And the drop usually is as sudden as it is final."

03-29-2010, 01:14 PM	#14
hotreds Ephesians 2:8 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5 miles past "Resume Speed" Posts: 11,662 Trading: (63)	Re: How do you describe Complexity?? It's complicated! __________________ God loves you so much, that he made you read this, just to let you know.

03-29-2010, 02:15 PM	#15
Subvet642 Bilge Rat Join Date: Nov 2009 First Name: Darren Location: Torpedo Room Bilge Posts: 2,997 Trading: (13)	Re: How do you describe Complexity?? Complexity is anything I can't taste. __________________ *"Man's mind is his basic tool of survival. Life is given to him, survival is not." -John Galt*

03-29-2010, 12:25 PM	#17
mosesbotbol That's a Corgi Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Moses Location: Boston Posts: 6,171 Trading: (6)	Re: How do you describe Complexity?? Multiple layers of flavors. Some may be more pronounced or I have an anfinity to recognize, while others I notice, but do not know what they are. Smoking with someone with different taste and palate will help you discover new flavors in anything. As much as I like to smoke with people who love the same cigars as I... I want to smoke with someone who may dislike my favorites. I am curious to explore their perspective some. Woody, mossy, and beany would describe the prolife I like most in cigars. Also lead to why I may talk up one cigar or be indifferent to another... __________________ Port Wine & Claret \| British Cars \| Welsh Corgi's

03-29-2010, 12:39 PM	#20
tx_tuff Guest Posts: n/a	Re: How do you describe Complexity?? For me it is both the changing of flavors and multi flavors at the same time. But most all what matters is that you are enjoying what you are smoking!