Are you tasting what you think you are?

[Ratters]

In my review of the Padron 3000, TheRiddick posted some very intersting information that I hadn't considered before.

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

"Dryness" is a sign of improperly grown tobacco. Unripe tobacco leaves contain unripe tannins, which leads to a sensation of "courseness" on the palate. Same as in wine.

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

I know you weren't doubting my post, I simply provided more facts. Weather is always a big factor with any agricultural crop and both grapes and tobacco are more "sensitive" to show the effects as there is no margin for error.

Another point to add is that reading through TNs posted on the board it is clear to me that a number of people mistake "pepper" notes for unripe tannins in some cigars. 5 Vegas Miami blend is one of them, what people think is "pepper hit" is actually very nasty, green and seriously unripe tannins. Smoke one and see for yourself.

I would not put Padron in that same group. Are they unripe to the point of being bad? Not in my opinion. But they also could use some more ripeness to reach the levels of pleasure they used to deliver in the '90s. I keep buying a few Padrons in different vitolas from time to time to see how they are doing, but so far I am in full agreement with the OP in the thread, they are OK smokes, but that is all there is.

At least the prices are fine and holding steady for a long time by now, and I applaud them for that. I just wish they made just a bit more of an effort.

Your thoughts?

Worth thinking about.....but that part about 5 Vegas Miami....don't know about that. I've smoked maybe 15+ of them, never had a "bad one" taste wise. I get the same "peppery" flavors from them that I get from a Partagas Black or La Gloria Cubana Serie R No. 5. Some people may just prefer smooth and milder cigars and not like the peppery flavors and think it's a nasty taste.

[Skywalker]

I have no doubts about what I am tasting...

I smoke Arganese!!!

[South Shield]

Originally Posted by Skywalker

I have no doubts about what I am tasting...

I smoke Arganese!!!

And thats why you are the man!

I used to mistake "pepper" more bitter. I think I can often enough tell the difference now. Bitter leaves a nasty after taste and pepper leaves a warmth. If I'm wrong then it feel's good to be so...

[Emjaysmash]

Well I cant attest to the Pepper vs. tannin statement... I do have a question, however.

If Padrons were to be aged, like CCs, would this ripen more tannins out, or does this need to be done before the process of rolling?

[Snake Hips]

Originally Posted by Emjaysmash

Well I cant attest to the Pepper vs. tannin statement... I do have a question, however.

If Padrons were to be aged, like CCs, would this ripen more tannins out, or does this need to be done before the process of rolling?

That needs to be done far before rolling. It needs to be done in harvesting. Or possibly in fermenting and/or curing at the latest.

Anyway, I don't know if I agree with The Riddick for my taste. What I personally take as "pepper" doesn't taste like it isn't supposed to be there; I hate it for violating the laws of good taste and smoking enjoyment, but it never seems "wrong" to the blend. I've tasted "green" cigars (I'm looking at you, Mag 50 >:0) and it isn't a pepper thing. It just tastes like smoking raw leaves - it's bitter and "plant-y." Pepper to me has always come off as something that appears to be part of the blend, rather than a product of improper processing. What I usually attribute to improper processing often gives me a sensation similar to biting into a grape seed - a tart bitterness that strikes the very back of the tongue, independent of other tastes (either shows through other present "proper" tobacco flavors, or stands alone a taste vacuum). Like I said before, it tastes "plant-y" and actually brings to mind "green" as a taste, because I immediately think of the taste and smell of a raw tree branch. Perhaps this pepper thing is true of tannins in wine, but pepper often doesn't seem out of place in cigar blends, and according to manufacturer and retailer descriptions, usually it's there because it's supposed to be.

I do definitely agree with him about the "dryness" and courseness on the palate. I often get cigars that I describe to have a "gritty" taste, or a "dry" taste, and it doesn't seem consistent (as in it doesn't seem intended with the blend). This is indeed unripe tannins, and there's no arguing there - this is the cause of the "green" tastes I described above. I get this a lot with Dominican tobacco (Dominican tobacco can go straight to Hell anyway, but this just adds to its sins).

[Zanaspus]

Always beware of people asserting objectivity to taste.

[South Shield]

its really simple...

You need to wet the cigars.....

There is video around of an interview with Jorge Padron. In it he states "Spice is never something I have contributed to a good cigar" or something to that effect. Padron's history is in cuba. There is not a lot of cuban cigars that have "spice" as talked about commonly. Spice can be read two ways as the OP said, pepper or tannin. There is not much else IMHO, unless you work for CA magazine, then you might have a south gautamalian red coffee spice!. LOL.

[Snake Hips]

Originally Posted by Tashaz

There is video around of an interview with Jorge Padron. In it he states "Spice is never something I have contributed to a good cigar" or something to that effect. Padron's history is in cuba. There is not a lot of cuban cigars that have "spice" as talked about commonly. Spice can be read two ways as the OP said, pepper or tannin. There is not much else IMHO, unless you work for CA magazine, then you might have a south gautamalian red coffee spice!. LOL.

I disagree. I find I taste lots of spice in cigars, and most of the time it is neither pepper nor tannin. I often taste white pepper, red pepper, cinnamon, nutmeg, etc. Black pepper is the "pepper" taste to me, and I hate it most of the time. And no, I don't find it a lot in Habanos. But I do encounter many spicy Habanos that aren't tannic.

[NCRadioMan]

You taste what you taste. How can anyone tell you what you taste?

That's why I don't take alot of stock in reviews. They can be fun to read but I never buy or not buy based on a review.

[rizzle]

To me, it tastes good or bad. But I'm an uncouth heathen, what do I know.

I disagree with TheRiddick but I do know what he means. However if you smoke enough and your blessed (because some of taste more than others) you can develop a palette. I think I've smoked enough cigars to tell the difference between green cigars and pepper as a flavor.

However when he talks about ripening tobacco as far as I know only fruits can continue to ripen after they are picked and only some of them.

[bobarian]

Originally Posted by Addiction

I disagree with TheRiddick but I do know what he means. However if you smoke enough and your blessed (because some of taste more than others) you can develop a palette. I think I've smoked enough cigars to tell the difference between green cigars and pepper as a flavor.

However when he talks about ripening tobacco as far as I know only fruits can continue to ripen after they are picked and only some of them.

I think the use of the word "ripeness" refers to the chemical changes that continue to occur as a cigar ages. While most fermentation occurs while the tobacco is in bales(for wine its barrels), after the cigar is rolled or the wine is bottled, chemical changes continue to occur. Often a freshly rolled CC will show signs of sickness or the off gassing of ammonia. This is not usually found in NC's as most times the tobaccos are aged for a longer period before rollin. In both wines and cigars its the tannins that give that "bite" on the back of the tongue, some tasters like that others do not. As a cigar or wine ages these tannins change chemically and smooth or mellow in flavor. Not all the pepper notes are an indication of "greenness" in a cigar, but as The Riddick said, many with less experienced palates do make this mistake.

[srduggins]

Very interesting discussion. I don't detect much black pepper in cigars I smoke, even when people call them peppery. and I smoke a lot of Pepin sticks. However, I do get a range of other spices including, red pepper, cinnamon, nutmeg, cardamom ...

Something that I have learned to detect is under-fermented tobacco. Kind of a green, syrupy taste. It can be interesting, but ultimately I think it reduces the cigars body and complexity (kind of like residual sugar in wine - although that adds body), and the memory of the flavor isn't as pleasant. Luckily I think this problem is rare in the cigar industry and I have only detected it in pre-production sticks and fake ccs.

[Tripp]

I don't really agree with the part about 5 Vegas, I feel like its actually a spicy cigar. IMHO A cigar really that stands out in my mind as being "tanniny" is the Padilla 1968. I bought a 10 pack about a year ago, and every time I smoke one I regret it, because to my palate, the tannins overpower every other taste.

I need help with the word "pepper". There is the distinct taste of black pepper, just like grains of pepper sprinkled on your tongue. I like this, myself. Then there is the pungent bite of peppers not associated with any particular taste, like in chillies. These two are very different to me but may be caused by the same thing.

[Giant & 49er Fan]

A good example of the "Pepper" taste as a negative, for me, was found in the RP ITC 10th Anniversary. After the distinct "pepper" taste, what was left was a dry filmy residue like texture on my tougue. A bitter taste left on the pallet as well. Anyone find this to be as well?

[gnukfu]

Even when I'm tasting what I think I am I'm not sure what I'm tasting......