US Embassy in Cuba

[jledou]

The flag will be raised today at the embassy. One step closer down the journey.

http://news.yahoo.com/kerry-havana-b...035930955.html

[Blueface]

My life is now complete.

[elderboy02]

I really, really, really want to visit Cuba. Lift the dang embargo already.

We do business with freaking China... why not Cuba?

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by elderboy02

I really, really, really want to visit Cuba. Lift the dang embargo already.

Dan,
It will be awesome.
We can all then visit Joanne Chesimard and have a cigar together.

On that note, running off to my cruise before I get banned.

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by elderboy02

I really, really, really want to visit Cuba. Lift the dang embargo already.

We do business with freaking China... why not Cuba?

Because China didn't nationalize (steal) billions of dollars worth of U.S. businesses and property; Cuba did.

[Habana Mike]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

Because China didn't nationalize (steal) billions of dollars worth of U.S. businesses and property; Cuba did.

Well, not yet though they've certainly bought a lot of debt that will come due one day.....

And by the way it's really not terribly difficult to travel to Cuba for anyone under an OFAC general license, especially now.

Glad to answer any questions on this as I've researched it fairly extensively.

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by Habana Mike

Well, not yet though they've certainly bought a lot of debt that will come due one day.....

And by the way it's really not terribly difficult to travel to Cuba for anyone under an OFAC general license, especially now.

Glad to answer any questions on this as I've researched it fairly extensively.

Buying debt and nationalizing American banks and businesses are two very different things. The U.S. government issues bonds for people and entities to buy, legally. Nationalization is just theft. It's the communist way: steal from those who produce to pay those who don't in order to maintain dictatorial power. While China is communist too, they're not Stalinists; they want to engage with the world and conduct business by the rules. Capitalism, on the other hand, is the only moral economic system because it rewards effort, punishes sloth and demands that people conduct business voluntarily, as only a free people can.

[jledou]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

they want to engage with the world and conduct business by the rules.

Along this front I will just say that's not always the case.

[Habana Mike]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

Buying debt and nationalizing American banks and businesses are two very different things. The U.S. government issues bonds for people and entities to buy, legally. Nationalization is just theft. It's the communist way: steal from those who produce to pay those who don't in order to maintain dictatorial power. While China is communist too, they're not Stalinists; they want to engage with the world and conduct business by the rules. Capitalism, on the other hand, is the only moral economic system because it rewards effort, punishes sloth and demands that people conduct business voluntarily, as only a free people can.

True point though I was suggesting that one day it might happen.

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by Habana Mike

Well, not yet though they've certainly bought a lot of debt that will come due one day.....

Originally Posted by Habana Mike

The point above was not about the debt but rather whether nationalization ever happens after the US heavily invests and thousands of companies sets up shop over there, who knows?

According to your post, quoted above, it was; but let 'em try it. The U.S. will just freeze their assets, like we did the Cubans and Iranians and compensate the owners of the nationalized property from that. They have much, much more to lose than we do, and they know this.

[M1903A1]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

Because China didn't nationalize (steal) billions of dollars worth of U.S. businesses and property; Cuba did.

Actually, the Chinese did, in 1949...what finally opened the gates was that they agreed to pay a percentage (around 50% or so?) of the value from that time.

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by jledou

Along this front I will just say that's not always the case.

It's not always the case with Europe, either.

Originally Posted by M1903A1

Actually, the Chinese did, in 1949...what finally opened the gates was that they agreed to pay a percentage (around 50% or so?) of the value from that time.

Well, there ya go; they offered to make good, at least partially, while the Cuban "government" continues in their attempts to extort us further. At least the ChiComs made better effort along those lines than most debtors in U.S. bankruptcy court. Of course they had to, communism as an economic system doesn't work; you eventually run out of people who can pay for everything because there is no incentive for people to produce and achieve. All communism is evil; it's the Industrial Age's version of feudalism.

[AdamJoshua]

I suppose this is something, but it doesn't seem to do anything at all for the people in Cuba. They already have a ton of tourism, it's not like all of a sudden the flood gates are going to open for the lower classes.

[jjirons69]

Hell, I feel sorry for all those guys on Cuban Chrome. If nothing else comes of it, maybe all those shade tree mechanics are able to be after-market parts for their cars.

[shark]

Would be nice to see some of the old parts of Havana in person, instead of in pictures. Maybe someday... From Canadians whom I've talked to who've been there, it's really nice, and not very expensive at all for a Caribbean destination

[Col. Kurtz]

Meh

[Weelok]

The thing that has always puzzled me is we had an embargo with Cuba and yet we continued to operate a Naval base on Cuba at Guantanamo. Now I'm all for it, but I always thought that was kind of funny.

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by Weelok

The thing that has always puzzled me is we had an embargo with Cuba and yet we continued to operate a Naval base on Cuba at Guantanamo. Now I'm all for it, but I always thought that was kind of funny.

We captured Cuba during the Spanish-American war, along with the Philippines, Puerto Rico and Guam in 1898. We retained Guantanamo Bay as a Naval Base; it is effectively U.S. soil. Cuba is in no position to expel us. I think it's hilarious!

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

We captured Cuba during the Spanish-American war, along with the Philippines, Puerto Rico and Guam in 1898. We retained Guantanamo Bay as a Naval Base; it is effectively U.S. soil. Cuba is in no position to expel us. I think it's hilarious!

Not exactly.
The U.S. Joined the Spanish American War to assist Cuba in its independence war against Spain.
As result of the treaty to end the war, Spain relinquished its claim to Cuba.
Additionally, it ceded Puerto Rico and Guam to the U.S., along with sovereignty of the Phillipines.
Cuba was not and has never been captured by the U.S. After the war, it began its independence as a country.

BTW, should have added:
As result of assisting Cuba, they signed a treaty with U.S. For Guantanmo Bay.

[AdamJoshua]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Not exactly.
The U.S. Joined the Spanish American War to assist Cuba in its independence war against Spain.
As result of the treaty to end the war, Spain relinquished its claim to Cuba.
Additionally, it ceded Puerto Rico and Guam to the U.S., along with sovereignty of the Phillipines.
Cuba was not and has never been captured by the U.S. After the war, it began its independence as a country.

BTW, should have added:
As result of assisting Cuba, they signed a treaty with U.S. For Guantanmo Bay.