Replacements? or Memories? (especially pipe tobacco)

RevSmoke · 03-19-2022, 04:05 PM

I think if you read this to the end, even if you are not a pipe smoker, you will enjoy it - and....

You have all seen the question, I had it again the other day. I was in a tobacco shop about and hour and a half from home as I had to do a hospital visit, and there was an older guy (he was older to me, and I ain't no spring chicken...he was 80+) who was asking the proprietor what he could get to replace all-time favorite tobacco, Three Nuns. He hadn't seen it in years. The owner explained that there is a version out there that isn't bad, the portions of the constituent tobaccos are same, and it may come "close," but it isn't the same.

The proprietor was right, I have failed to find new versions of old tobaccos that are the same. They might be similar, and some may come close, but they ae not the same.

This is true of cigars too. I have smoked a snot load of AF cigars, even remember getting AF Hemingway Short Stories for $63 a box. They are a bit more today, and they are not as good.

Personally, I have always loved Escudo. It was originally made by Cope Bros., but they stopped production in 1952. Gallagher took over and made it till 1994, this is the stuff I cut my teeth on. Supposedly, the recipe was exactly the same. I couldn't tell you. Then it was made by AC Peterson, then the Orlik, and now by STG. Once I did come across an unopened tin of the original, (supposedly tinned in 1950 according to the owner) at a garage sale. This was nothing like anything I had smoked before, of course, by the time I got it it was almost 40 years old. I have had the AC Peterson version, and the Orlik/STG versions. You know what, they've all been just a little bit different. Which one is the better one, or the best? Well the Copies was, of course!!! I mean, it was 40 years old! (at least that's what I remember)

If anybody has had any Christmas Cheer made by McClelland, you know that each year was a different crop of Virginia, from a different farm. And each year, if your palate was good enough, you could taste incredible differences. I dare say that if you took the same tobacco, off the same field, only in different years, each you would taste different. Difference in amount of rainfall would alone make a huge difference in how that crop would taste. It's kind of like wines from the same vineyard. Why is a 1962 Lafite Rothschild so much better than the same wine from 1974? Has to do with the amount of rainfall, where the moisture in the clouds was gathered from, and who knows what other things could go into the growth of the grapes - and for that matter the tobacco that is in a particular crop which makes it sing in the palate.

Someone with the right palate can tell you the difference between G&H Louisiana Flake from 2007 & 2010. I have some Esoterica Stonehaven from 2002 & some from 2014. Stuff from 2002 is an intense dark chocolate color, the stuff from 2014 is closer to a milk chocolate color. It is the same tobacco, from the same manufacturer. Why the difference?

So what's the conclusion from all my ramblings?

Yeah we'd like to have tobacco's remain consistent from batch, to batch, to batch throughout the years. And when something disappears, we'd like to be able to find something that is a perfect replacement. I'd like to think that every once in a while it even happens. In my own mind, and according to my own taste buds, I think it has in some cases…if nothing else, some have come doggone close.

I think we can say that there are some tobaccos which will share some of the same constituent tobaccos - in the broad sense - Virginia, Burley, Perique, Oriental, Latakia, or something else. But a Virginia from Africa -vs- a VA from South Carolina -vs- a VA from Virginia will all have a different taste. So a VaPer, even with the exact same percentages of VA to Perique, will taste different depending on where those tobaccos came from.

Personally the best tobacco I ever had was a McClelland Christmas Cheer from 1994, smoked in 2014. It was 20 years old, and was nearly white with crystalline structures covering every, single, broken flake. It was an incredible smoke. I looked all over to find another tin of that tobacco. I did so about 3 years later, paying two arms, one leg, and four toenails for it. It was nothing like the first time…it did have some white crystalline structures on most of the flakes, but it was nowhere near as enjoyable.
Of course that first tin was shared with a very good friend, and my oldest son on a 3-day fishing trip. Since then I've asked myself a few questions. Was it the tobacco? The company? The scenic setting? Or was it all those things together that made it such a wonderful experience, and made that the best tin of tobacco I'd ever had?

Too bad we can't repeat everything exactly the same.

Of course if we could, we'd never have any wonderful memories.
I wonder, are all my memories exactly correct? Or are there some little embellishments, something which makes our memories sweeter than the moments we live in - especially as those memories age?

Of course, you know what this may mean?
The semi-sweet moments of our present, will be the exquisitely sweet memories of our future!!!
Grab a pipe, grab a tobacco you enjoy, grab a friend to smoke with, make a memory!
Trust me, it will age to perfection!!!

Peace of the Lord be with you.

bruceolee · 03-19-2022, 04:57 PM

There's a lot that can effect your smoking experience and make it better like good company, a good drink and for me especially a great meal. I also think about cuban cigars year to year can vary so much like quality control and the relative age of the tobacco being used. A cohiba siglo VI from 2010 will vary greatly from a cigar made today. if we could go back in time to smoke them both fresh in our time machine i think we'd find great variance between the two. nothing can quite change a cigar smoking experience more than mood and daily palate. Every day i start by smoking a quorum maduro corona and from one day to the next depending on where my palate is it can be a sweet chocolatey experience that makes me question why they're so cheap and on other days are just so-so. You palate will change day to day so you have to take that into consideration as well. That's why i start my day with the same cigar over and over just to test where my palate is and whether today will be a good day to give a cigar a fair review. Anyways, just a bit of my wisdom. I'm sure others will have far better answers than me. God bless you all!

gravel · 03-20-2022, 12:49 AM

I have precious little McClelland left. I generously shared tins of CC in “bombs” and now only have a bit left in jars. To be fair, I did sell some through pipestud to fund our 25th anniversary trip to Hawaii. In this case I traded to initial joy of popping a new old tin and sipping on the pipe in relaxed contemplation for an experience with my beloved. In this way I think I enjoyed what those tins offered more than if I smoked them. It was a wonderful trip where I experienced much of what you described and I didn’t smoke.

03-19-2022, 04:05 PM	#1
RevSmoke Ain't Never Gonna Leave Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Todd Location: Northcentral woods of Wisconsin Posts: 6,849 Trading: (51)	Replacements? or Memories? (especially pipe tobacco) I think if you read this to the end, even if you are not a pipe smoker, you will enjoy it - and.... You have all seen the question, I had it again the other day. I was in a tobacco shop about and hour and a half from home as I had to do a hospital visit, and there was an older guy (he was older to me, and I ain't no spring chicken...he was 80+) who was asking the proprietor what he could get to replace all-time favorite tobacco, Three Nuns. He hadn't seen it in years. The owner explained that there is a version out there that isn't bad, the portions of the constituent tobaccos are same, and it may come "close," but it isn't the same. The proprietor was right, I have failed to find new versions of old tobaccos that are the same. They might be similar, and some may come close, but they ae not the same. This is true of cigars too. I have smoked a snot load of AF cigars, even remember getting AF Hemingway Short Stories for $63 a box. They are a bit more today, and they are not as good. Personally, I have always loved Escudo. It was originally made by Cope Bros., but they stopped production in 1952. Gallagher took over and made it till 1994, this is the stuff I cut my teeth on. Supposedly, the recipe was exactly the same. I couldn't tell you. Then it was made by AC Peterson, then the Orlik, and now by STG. Once I did come across an unopened tin of the original, (supposedly tinned in 1950 according to the owner) at a garage sale. This was nothing like anything I had smoked before, of course, by the time I got it it was almost 40 years old. I have had the AC Peterson version, and the Orlik/STG versions. You know what, they've all been just a little bit different. Which one is the better one, or the best? Well the Copies was, of course!!! I mean, it was 40 years old! (at least that's what I remember) If anybody has had any Christmas Cheer made by McClelland, you know that each year was a different crop of Virginia, from a different farm. And each year, if your palate was good enough, you could taste incredible differences. I dare say that if you took the same tobacco, off the same field, only in different years, each you would taste different. Difference in amount of rainfall would alone make a huge difference in how that crop would taste. It's kind of like wines from the same vineyard. Why is a 1962 Lafite Rothschild so much better than the same wine from 1974? Has to do with the amount of rainfall, where the moisture in the clouds was gathered from, and who knows what other things could go into the growth of the grapes - and for that matter the tobacco that is in a particular crop which makes it sing in the palate. Someone with the right palate can tell you the difference between G&H Louisiana Flake from 2007 & 2010. I have some Esoterica Stonehaven from 2002 & some from 2014. Stuff from 2002 is an intense dark chocolate color, the stuff from 2014 is closer to a milk chocolate color. It is the same tobacco, from the same manufacturer. Why the difference? So what's the conclusion from all my ramblings? Yeah we'd like to have tobacco's remain consistent from batch, to batch, to batch throughout the years. And when something disappears, we'd like to be able to find something that is a perfect replacement. I'd like to think that every once in a while it even happens. In my own mind, and according to my own taste buds, I think it has in some cases…if nothing else, some have come doggone close. I think we can say that there are some tobaccos which will share some of the same constituent tobaccos - in the broad sense - Virginia, Burley, Perique, Oriental, Latakia, or something else. But a Virginia from Africa -vs- a VA from South Carolina -vs- a VA from Virginia will all have a different taste. So a VaPer, even with the exact same percentages of VA to Perique, will taste different depending on where those tobaccos came from. Personally the best tobacco I ever had was a McClelland Christmas Cheer from 1994, smoked in 2014. It was 20 years old, and was nearly white with crystalline structures covering every, single, broken flake. It was an incredible smoke. I looked all over to find another tin of that tobacco. I did so about 3 years later, paying two arms, one leg, and four toenails for it. It was nothing like the first time…it did have some white crystalline structures on most of the flakes, but it was nowhere near as enjoyable. Of course that first tin was shared with a very good friend, and my oldest son on a 3-day fishing trip. Since then I've asked myself a few questions. Was it the tobacco? The company? The scenic setting? Or was it all those things together that made it such a wonderful experience, and made that the best tin of tobacco I'd ever had? Too bad we can't repeat everything exactly the same. Of course if we could, we'd never have any wonderful memories. I wonder, are all my memories exactly correct? Or are there some little embellishments, something which makes our memories sweeter than the moments we live in - especially as those memories age? Of course, you know what this may mean? The semi-sweet moments of our present, will be the exquisitely sweet memories of our future!!! Grab a pipe, grab a tobacco you enjoy, grab a friend to smoke with, make a memory! Trust me, it will age to perfection!!! Peace of the Lord be with you. __________________ Todd__ "Smoke what you like, and enjoy it!"

03-19-2022, 04:57 PM	#2
bruceolee King of Rants Join Date: Aug 2009 First Name: Jason Location: South Florida Posts: 1,227 Trading: (1)	Re: Replacements? or Memories? (especially pipe tobacco) There's a lot that can effect your smoking experience and make it better like good company, a good drink and for me especially a great meal. I also think about cuban cigars year to year can vary so much like quality control and the relative age of the tobacco being used. A cohiba siglo VI from 2010 will vary greatly from a cigar made today. if we could go back in time to smoke them both fresh in our time machine i think we'd find great variance between the two. nothing can quite change a cigar smoking experience more than mood and daily palate. Every day i start by smoking a quorum maduro corona and from one day to the next depending on where my palate is it can be a sweet chocolatey experience that makes me question why they're so cheap and on other days are just so-so. You palate will change day to day so you have to take that into consideration as well. That's why i start my day with the same cigar over and over just to test where my palate is and whether today will be a good day to give a cigar a fair review. Anyways, just a bit of my wisdom. I'm sure others will have far better answers than me. God bless you all! __________________ “When I have found intense pain relieved, a weary brain soothed, and calm, refreshing sleep obtained by a cigar, I have felt grateful to God, and have blessed His name.” Spurgeon

03-20-2022, 12:49 AM	#3
gravel Still Washing My Back Join Date: Mar 2014 First Name: Geoff Location: Oregon Posts: 262 Trading: (3)	Re: Replacements? or Memories? (especially pipe tobacco) I have precious little McClelland left. I generously shared tins of CC in “bombs” and now only have a bit left in jars. To be fair, I did sell some through pipestud to fund our 25th anniversary trip to Hawaii. In this case I traded to initial joy of popping a new old tin and sipping on the pipe in relaxed contemplation for an experience with my beloved. In this way I think I enjoyed what those tins offered more than if I smoked them. It was a wonderful trip where I experienced much of what you described and I didn’t smoke.