My Winefridge/Humidor Rant

So I have been thinking a lot about this of late. I know, I know, I have too much time on my hands. But no that is not it, I am passionate about this hobby/obsession of mine and I actually spend a lot of time thinking about it sometimes I start posts that I stop because I don’t want to upset anyone.
First for the disclaimer, this is only my opinion, and only based on my experience. I know some BOTL that have had similar troubles/issues/whatever but here goes.
If you are thinking of going for a Vino my recommendation would be to not do it. If you cannot afford a reasonable size humidor that will hold your collection stick with coolers, in my opinion they work waaaay better.
Now I am extremely fortunate to have been able to upgrade to the humidor of my dreams and don’t ever expect to move from this to anything else. Not everyone can afford to buy an aristocrat (or similar set up) so we rig various non humidor containers into humidors.

I have used them all;

* 64qt Cheapo Cooler
* 40 qt expensive stainless cooler
* Rubbermade storage boxes
* Brand X Plastic Storage boxes
* Desktop humidors
* Huge Ziploc storage bags
* Travel humidors
* And last but not least the vino’s

To be fair I thought my Vino’s were the best thing since sliced bread when I got them and I put in Spanish cedar shelves, oust fans, Spanish cedar trays crafted by a great BOTL and pounds and pounds of beads from Shilala. I had over double the beads needed for the space ratio.

I used the beads in my coolers and storage boxes as well.

I used salt calibrated digital wireless hygrometers to monitor my RH. In all my boxes the only issues I ever had where in the Vinos. RH spikes and drops (not out of the range of tolerable but movement non the less) Mold yup mold in one that cost me a half a box of sticks due to condensation running down the back of the fridge. With the RH movement it seemed I was constantly checking and fooling with things which was a bit annoying after a while, in my mind it was causing my sticks to not be smoking well (burn issues, draw issues, cracked feet etc. It may have been just in my mind but I didn’t have these issues in any of the coolers, boxes or ziplocador.

After talking to a few other members of the cigar world it seems that anyone that has had trouble with their storage it was only with wine fridges. Never heard of cooler issues other than the normal how to set up and how much beads to use etc. Also in most desktops the issues are typically seal issues, or user error.

I liked my Vinos they looked nice, hell they have a fancy glass door I can see my sticks through. They were also jammed full, hygros fell out, beads fell out, sticks fell out cuz they were jammed full. Tetris was a pain. The coolers and boxes just worked better.

In the end if I had to do it again I would never use a wine fridge again, don’t get me wrong many a brother have used them to great success. Many have modified them beautifully and they are wonderful looking units. But not for me I would stick to coolers, they never ever (ok well hardly ever) needed any kind of maintenance and would go months in between needing to charge the beads. They seem to hold their RH better after being opened (which makes no sense since humid air is lighter than dry air you would think that the nature of opening a cooler vs a wine fridge would let more humidity out)

But on that vein if I had been happy with my storage then I would never have moved on to the Aristocrat so this journey has had a happy result.

Just my thoughts on Wine Fridges I thought I would share. I don’t for a second think that my opinion is the right one but you so often see them touted as great (I was in that camp) and don’t often here of issues or reasons against I thought this would be a different view.

[acarr]

It is kind of funny. I went out bought all the beads and all that good stuff for my vino also. In the end, I started seasoning the thing with just a glass of distilled water and some empty cigar boxes. The humidity stayed dead on so I added more boxes and more boxes. I used nothing to take the RH down at all, the cycling of the vino does that nicely. So the only thing I have used in my vino for humidity for over a year is little glass of water and the results have been perfect.

[yourchoice]

I don't have a vino and probably will never (I have an end table humidor). But I would think the biggest advantage of a vino over the coolers is temperature control. I'm not sure how you'd go about controlling temps on a regular basis with coolers. I'm assuming temps weren't your issue Shawn, is that correct?

If it were me (and I didn't have an end table ) I'd probably go with coolers in my basement which 364/365 days of the year is below 69 degrees. But if I lived in Florida or somewhere similar without a basement, I'd consider the vino.

[Skywalker]

I don't plug my Vino in... it remains at room temp... between 70 and 72 degrees. My house never gets too warm or too cold! My Vino has remained between RH 53 and 55 since I started using it.

My cooler has always sat in the same room temp and I keep it at an even RH 65!

I think the temp has a lot to do with it

[AlohaStyle]

I live in the Seattle area where a Vino isn't needed for most of the year, but during the Summer it can get hot and most houses here don't have basements or A/C's including mine. This July/August, the temp was in the 90's/100's for almost 3 weeks straight with the inside of my house being in the 90's. Luckily I didn't have a big cigar collection as I am just getting serious with cigars, but there's no way I will let the collection I have now get introduced to high temps!

I hear ya about temperature swings but Chas made a great post with the study he did on his Vino regarding temp swings. That is why he has glass on top of the drawers as the rh level inside the drawers don't swing as much with the glass top.

Anyway, I respect your opinion as we all need to do what works best for us. Time will tell for me if the Vino is the right option, but for now I like it and when I get my drawers from Chas, I will love it!

[Sauer Grapes]

Originally Posted by Skywalker

I don't plug my Vino in... it remains at room temp... between 70 and 72 degrees. My house never gets too warm or too cold! My Vino has remained between RH 53 and 55 since I started using it.

My cooler has always sat in the same room temp and I keep it at an even RH 65!

I think the temp has a lot to do with it

If your vino isn't on, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to hold at any rh you want. Unless you want it at 53 rh, then your seal is crappy.

Another problem with this hobby is we tend to dwell on the negative (troubles) rather than the positive. More often than not, people post in search of help to problems. Although there are positive reviews and discussions throughout the forum, a lot of time is spend debating the troubles people are having and how others solved a similar problem. This lopsided information often tends to paint a negative picture of (insert whatever topic you wish). Sure there are those who have success, they tend to be the ones offering suggestions to those having trouble. They don’t however often start new topics like "My product rocks and is perfect". My experience with my wine coolers is people are trying way too hard to create the perfect humidor. Mine are only plugged in for a few months out of the year. They have sufficient beads, and I accept the fact they are what they are, wine coolers with cigars in them. I monitor them and smoke cigars from them daily. For me they offer a large area to store cigars that the wife is not ashamed to have sitting in the kitchen.

Not sure she would be cool with 3 white Rubbermaid coolers stacked next to the microwave.

Chas

[Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Sauer Grapes

If your vino isn't on, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to hold at any rh you want. Unless you want it at 53 rh, then your seal is crappy.

I like my CCs crisp!!!

Well said.

I haven't found the allure of Vinos yet, especially when considering how inexpensive and effective a 120qt cooler is.

[md4958]

Like Darrell, I never plugged my Vino in. I keep it in the basement and the RH was rock solid for the year Ive used it.

The look is obviously more attractive than a cooler, but the real reason I purchased a vino over a cooler was the price. For the price of this vino (clearance), I could NOT have purchased a cooler that was comparable in size.

As I have said, many many people have had great success with Vino's. I am not in the least suggesting that they are a bad thing.

What I am giving is an alternative opinion, I didn't need the cooling, they were not anywhere on display and they needed more work than I wanted to give them. Perhaps I am inherently lazy, but in my opinion the less I screw around with my cigars and the more stable their environment the happier I am.

So Vino's may not be for all.

Just a different view, neither right nor wrong only something to think about when approaching your storage concerns.

[tchariya]

I use a vino too but I never plug mine in and it holds great temp and rh at 63-67 depending on the level of the shelves I have placed in there.

I do also have huge coolers that keep temp and rh too, but i store my boxes of this and that in those that I'm collecting/aging.

I use shilala beads in both. I have yet to 'refill' these beads or add distilled water into either environment.

I would have to say that I have been very lucky with my setups.

Hello fellow smokers,
Just wanted to weigh in on the Vino vs. Humidor discussion. I have been smoking cigars for about 15 years and have only recently turned this into a hobby/pursuit. I have used the standard Spanish cedar lined humidors for years and the humidity does stay accurate once you got the RH to the level it needed to be at for aging/storing. However, as someone else has pointed out, temperature is a HUGE concern in warmer climates. I know that I cannot afford to keep my house in Florida at 68-70 degrees all day and night to accomodate my cigars. My electric bill would be well over $400.00 a month in the summer! So as an alternative i picked up two Vinotemp 12-bottle beverage coolers. Paid $89.99 each (bestbuy). Since I am a bachelor I have them nicely displayed on my matching glass covered wood end tables in the living room! I have a four stage programable thermostat for the house that I have set to raise the temp up to 80 degrees during the day and an hour before I am due back home I have it set to go down to 75 degrees. I have had the vinotemps running for about 4 months now and haven't experienced one moisture problem inside this unit. I use beads in a glass BALL jar and add distilled water as necessary(maybe once every 10-15 days) I keep it set on the maximum temperature of 66 degrees. I have also purchased an Oregon Scientific 500 weather station with remote sensor to put inside to monitor RH and temp 24/7. It records the highest and lowest temps and RH humidity since midnight and resets again each midnight. This really helps so that you can see what the temp and RH is doing while you are away from the house or sleeping and can help you diagnose and possibly wart off any potential problems with RH or temp. I store some of the cigars I have in their original boxes after removing their cellophane wrappers. But I have most of them sitting in Cedar trays that have plenty of openings for ventilation. The cigars seem to be aging well and are tasting REAL good. I am even seeing some plume on my Padron 7000s. So far I LOVE my Vinotemps! Thanks Mackhaus

[themoneycollector]

As others have said, it really depends on where you live and if you need both temp and humidity control

Living in the south, temp control is absolutely necessary. Beads only solve the RH control. No temp control rules out most cabinets unless they are temp controlled - which are much too expensive. Coolers work fantastic with beads for RH control, but they don't provide much help in the summer, where the temps are in the upper 90's for 3 months out of the year. Some people keep the home A/C's on, but like mentioned, that can run upwards of $400-500/month in electricity.

But vinos aren't a solve-all solution. They are a good size, but I wish they made them 4x the size and comparably priced with the smaller ones. I've seen some very large ones, but the price tag jumps so much that it doesn't make sense. And having 3 or 4 of them in the house isn't much more appealing than a stack of coolers.

Hmmm....need to do some research on costs and requirements to turn a closet into a walk-in with temp and humidity control....

[Bartolomeo]

[quote=themoneycollector;599414]As others have said, it really depends on where you live and if you need both temp and humidity controlQUOTE]

Spot on!

Temperature control is essential is the warmer climates to prevent beetles, mold, etc

1. I think the Vinos are great for the money and for the entry level smoker wanting a little more than a standard desktop humidor with added temp control.

2. It took me forever to set mine up b/c I am anal about getting it just right, but my Vino rocks at 65* and 63-65%RH, look at my Vino project thread and you will see how crazy I am trying to get it perfect

3. I was told the Vino wouldnt be big enough early on and I laughed.....now I see what they were speaking of 400+ cigars later......

4. SilverFox makes great points and is absolutely correct, only thing is for the warmer climates, temp control is a must, something coolers can't provide

5. My next step is an Aristocrat, but thats way down the road for me since a temp controlled Aristocrat will run you about $4K roughly

6. I am expecting my order from Chas in the next 2-3 weeks and that should add some excitement to my Vino currently

Bottom line, if you need temp control, Vino is a great choice which no cooler can provide.....I wish I had a basement or a garage where I didnt have to plug my Vino in

Respectfully,

Bart

PS- Plus it was kind of fun farting around with the set up, gave me a chance to me some cool cats here

[The Poet]

I have used cheap plastic tubs for my pricinpal long-term storage for years, using old buttertubs with florist foam as humidification, plus a half-dozen inexpensive desktop humidors for short-term and easy-access, and for reconditioning prior to consumption. I've had no problems, despite my locale in New Jersey, where temps and ambient bounces from one extreme to the other during the year's course. I have no Vino experience, having neither the space nor the funds. Yet I do know this - had I both of these, I would use my Vino for - guess what - vino. My cabernets are as vital as my cigars. Just , and worth every penny.

[captain53]

My worth is that the perfect solution has not been discovered and if it does exist it is in the thousands of $ and very large but talking to the local B&M they fight humidity issues all the time too in the walk-in so what the hell the vino seems to be one of several good solutions for a fairly large quatity of stix at somewhat of a reasonable price. I have had mine up and running for about 4 months and it is serving me very well with little maintenance now but it took a month or more to reach that point. Patience with cigars no matter what particular element you are dealing with - no instant gratification. Also they are just cigars and a percent or two or a degree or two are not going to make a damn bit of difference in the real world.

[shilala]

I'm kind of with you, Shawn.
Why thermoelectrics became the "storage of choice" is pretty obvious, but they aren't without their pitfalls, and a guy really has to get "read up" on them to make them work the way they'd like.
Coolers kick ass. They are super easy.
That said, I have a 120 quart igloo that doesn't hold humidity at all. I had to use foam rubber to seal it and I had to put clasps on it.
I really don't want that rig sitting in my living room.

I use converted compressor driven wine fridges. I can do that because I know how to make them work, because refrigeration is what I do for a living, or at least did for a long time.
I also use a great big giant display humi that leaks like a sieve and I love it.
I struggle with it constantly and have to watch it like a hawk.
It makes no sense, but it's what I enjoy doing.
The wine fridge requires zero maintenance and is always perfect. I just don't enjoy it like I enjoy all the trouble.

I do sympathize that vinos and edgestars are pretty much a throw away chinese box, but even after the guts fry, they still make a really nice cooler.
They look nice, too.
It's good that there's as many storage options as there are cigars. It's fun, even if it's infuriating.

[DavenportESQ]

Never had a problem with mine once I got it all set up. Cigars smoke great.

[eber]

I love mine, however I need it because my sticks would be cooking in the summer without the cooling, my smoking room where I keep my cigars doesnt get as much AC as the rest of the apartment