Red's Fans Check in

[chippewastud79]

The Reds finally lose a game in the last at bat. They always seem to find a way to eek out the close ones and today they finally lost one. They can't win 20+ games in the bottom of the ninth or extras every year.

[elderboy02]

Reds win! Reds win!

[Starscream]

Stubbs and coCo made up for yesterday.

Nice debut by Cueto.

[Starscream]

I've discussed this elsewhere, but what do you think about us picking up Jose Reyes? I don't think they'll pull the trigger, but I don't think it's a good idea either. He's too injury prone IMHO.

[elderboy02]

I don't think they will do it. I really like Janish.

[Starscream]

Janish is THE MAN when it comes to playing the field, but he's never gonna be a big asset to us offensively. Reyes can do both (when he's not hurt).

[chippewastud79]

Why wouldn't you go after Reyes? They could certainly use a lead off hitter who can run the bases. It would also give the Reds one of the best middle infields in recent baseball memory. I know Dan is a homer and loves who ever is in there, but Reyes is a better option than Janish or Renteria. Heck, give up the future league MVP Stubbs and future Cy Young winners Mike Leake and Homer Bailey.

[hotreds]

Hmm- Stubbs, Leake and Bailey for Reyes. Interesting thought!

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Why wouldn't you go after Reyes? They could certainly use a lead off hitter who can run the bases. It would also give the Reds one of the best middle infields in recent baseball memory. I know Dan is a homer and loves who ever is in there, but Reyes is a better option than Janish or Renteria. Heck, give up the future league MVP Stubbs and future Cy Young winners Mike Leake and Homer Bailey.

He would be better than Janish offensively and better than Renteria anyday of the week, but look at how many games he's played in over the last few years. Also, would we be able to afford him? For him to be beneficial, we'll have to sign him with an extension. CoCo is off the books after this year, but I don't think that'll be enough to make up for Reyes.

Doubt it happens anyway, the article that named the Reds as one of the teams that Reyes could go to was written by Bowden. Other than bringing in Phillips and Arroyo, Bowden was pathetic when he was our GM.

[elderboy02]

Bowden was a piece of crap for sure.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Starscream

He would be better than Janish offensively and better than Renteria anyday of the week, but look at how many games he's played in over the last few years. Also, would we be able to afford him? For him to be beneficial, we'll have to sign him with an extension. CoCo is off the books after this year, but I don't think that'll be enough to make up for Reyes.

Doubt it happens anyway, the article that named the Reds as one of the teams that Reyes could go to was written by Bowden. Other than bringing in Phillips and Arroyo, Bowden was pathetic when he was our GM.

Reyes does have a propensity to get injured, but when he is healthy he is a great talent, and who is to say that some of his 'injuries' are not wanting to hurry back to a crappy team. If they want a shot at keeping Votto, you have to put him in the playoffs these next three years and surround him with comparable talent. Reyes is a much bigger talent than Janish or Renteria. With no salary cap, and supposed more revenue from last season and an increase in revenue this year they should be able to free up the dough. If they can't continue to make more money and sign more talent, they won't have an opportunity to keep Votto because they won't be able to afford him.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Reyes does have a propensity to get injured, but when he is healthy he is a great talent, and who is to say that some of his 'injuries' are not wanting to hurry back to a crappy team. If they want a shot at keeping Votto, you have to put him in the playoffs these next three years and surround him with comparable talent. Reyes is a much bigger talent than Janish or Renteria. With no salary cap, and supposed more revenue from last season and an increase in revenue this year they should be able to free up the dough. If they can't continue to make more money and sign more talent, they won't have an opportunity to keep Votto because they won't be able to afford him.

Maybe a reason that they are about to raise ticket prices?

I agree with you in part. Janish could play a good backup to Reyes. Still not sure that I'm for giving up the farm and a starting pitcher to get him though. Pitching is bad enough this year w/o having to give up another half-decent arm.
I'd rather pick up a good LF and a good starting pitcher at this point.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Starscream

Maybe a reason that they are about to raise ticket prices?

I agree with you in part. Janish could play a good backup to Reyes. Still not sure that I'm for giving up the farm and a starting pitcher to get him though. Pitching is bad enough this year w/o having to give up another half-decent arm.
I'd rather pick up a good LF and a good starting pitcher at this point.

Giving up average pitchers and a sub-par lead-off hitter would be more than a fair trade. Maybe not giving up a comparable package this summer for Greinke was an indication that they are suffice with what they have. They drop great players for projects and sometimes they work out, they have yet to go the other way around. Their farm system is pretty decent, but they seem to struggle on the big stage, so why not give up a major-leaguer or two and a decent prospect or two for a proven player?

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Giving up average pitchers and a sub-par lead-off hitter would be more than a fair trade. Maybe not giving up a comparable package this summer for Greinke was an indication that they are suffice with what they have. They drop great players for projects and sometimes they work out, they have yet to go the other way around. Their farm system is pretty decent, but they seem to struggle on the big stage, so why not give up a major-leaguer or two and a decent prospect or two for a proven player?

I wouldn't give up Leake. I'd give up Bailey before Leake. I wouldn't mind giving up Stubbs either, but I'm scared of who we would replace him with in CF. Alonso could come up to play LF (which would be better than Gomes and Lewis), but there's not much to replace Stubbs' defense (which has been sub-par recently, but he's normally not that bad). Bruce ain't going nowhere, not with his arm in RF (I'm just sick of waiting on him to learn patience at the plate).

Who would you propose to trade from our farm system in a package deal?

[Starscream]

I copied this post off of the Reds message board over at the Enquirer site:

Our current SS, Janish, is better than the Brewer's Betancourt/Card's Theriot/Pirate's Cedeno/Stro's Sanchez. Only the Cub's Castro is better than Janish in the Central. I'm basing this on Fangraph's WAR stats btw. Therefore, there is no NEED for an upgrade. The Reds are 1.5 games back from a streaking Cards team that will cool off. I also believe Janish deserves his shot. He was forced to be the second SS for a few years now and let's see how he does as a starter, Janish has earned it. If he is costing us runs through either defense/offense, then let's visit this non-existent issue.

The only part I don't agree with is the "there's no need for an upgrade", but I would like Janish to be a starter for a full season just to see what he is capable of as a regular. This is his first true year as a starter for our team.

But then again, life isn't fair. It would just suck for Janish.


Edit: The more I think about this, the more that seems to be the status quo. We need to have the best SS, not settle just b/c the Cards/Bucs/Brewers don't have good SSs.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Starscream

I copied this post off of the Reds message board over at the Enquirer site:



The only part I don't agree with is the "there's no need for an upgrade", but I would like Janish to be a starter for a full season just to see what he is capable of as a regular. This is his first true year as a starter for our team.

But then again, life isn't fair. It would just suck for Janish.


Edit: The more I think about this, the more that seems to be the status quo. We need to have the best SS, not settle just b/c the Cards/Bucs/Brewers don't have good SSs.

Being better than everyone else in the NL Central got the Reds embarassed out of the playoffs last season after limping in on the heels of winning the weakest division with the weakest schedule. The Cardinals are about as streaky as the Reds, and the Reds have really yet to play a challenging series. Thank you schedule makers for the weakest schedule in the weakest league again this season thus far.

The Reds will continue to force feed us their 'home-grown talent' despite the opportunity for a better player. See: Bruce, Stubbs, Janish, Bailey. All supposed to be the next big thing and none of them have lived up to the hype yet. Reyes leads all NL shortstops in nearly every statistical category, Janish has been dormant at the plate. Reyes leading off the games with a BA almost a full 80 points higher than Stubbs and putting Stubbs back at #8 where he belongs (or better yet, including him in the trade) could do wonders for Philips and Votto.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

The Reds will continue to force feed us their 'home-grown talent' despite the opportunity for a better player. See: Bruce, Stubbs, Janish, Bailey.

You forgot Votto from that list.

But I'm almost with you on the Reyes deal. Janish has proven himself a capable backup SS. If we get Reyes and he spends time on the DL, then at least we'll still have Janish.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by Starscream

Who would you propose to trade from our farm system in a package deal?

Bump.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Starscream

You forgot Votto from that list.

But I'm almost with you on the Reyes deal. Janish has proven himself a capable backup SS. If we get Reyes and he spends time on the DL, then at least we'll still have Janish.

Votto is a great player, thats why he isn't on the over-hyped-under achieved list.

I still think some of Reyes spending extended time on the DL is not being in a hurry to return to the lineup of a team with nothing to play for. A change of venue and an opportunity to play in this weak division could be a chance for him to shine on a contender.

As for who to trade, Stubbs, Wood, LeCure, Leake, Bailey, Renteria and Gomes are all trade bait from the big leagues in my opinion. Francisco, Alonzo, Cozart, Willis, Herrera are all viable options.

My package: Stubbs, Bailey, Cozart and Willis. Two very average major leaguers (Sell them on the terms "Huge upside, very motivated, gamer, speed player and good potential", all hype terms for lackluster players), a AAA SS and a former AL starter trying to get back to the big show.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Votto is a great player, thats why he isn't on the over-hyped-under achieved list.

I still think some of Reyes spending extended time on the DL is not being in a hurry to return to the lineup of a team with nothing to play for. A change of venue and an opportunity to play in this weak division could be a chance for him to shine on a contender.

As for who to trade, Stubbs, Wood, LeCure, Leake, Bailey, Renteria and Gomes are all trade bait from the big leagues in my opinion. Francisco, Alonzo, Cozart, Willis, Herrera are all viable options.

My package: Stubbs, Bailey, Cozart and Willis. Two very average major leaguers (Sell them on the terms "Huge upside, very motivated, gamer, speed player and good potential", all hype terms for lackluster players), a AAA SS and a former AL starter trying to get back to the big show.

I don't want to get rid of Stubbs, Lecure, or Leake. Bailey, Cozart, Willis, and Francisco would be great for this. Leave Alonzo and Mesarasco alone in the minors. They are going to be needed in the future (at least Mesarasco).