Buying a new laptop- Apple?

[LeoM]

Hmm, well I was refraining from commenting here, but I'm bored, so wth?

Personally, I prefer Windows. Windows 7 at the current time (as Vista was the current rendition of Windows Me..........complete crap). I've worked with Windows, Linux, Unix, and Novell for over 15 years and still keep coming back to Windows (although there was a brief period when Mandrake was kickin it that I absolutely loved Linux).

I've tried Mac's, hell, even loaded my MSI Wind with Mac OS 10.5 and tried it out for a couple of months. Absolutely hated it. No features were where I thought they'd be, everything seemed to take twice as long to accomplish. This is not a dig on Mac's, it's just the way I perceived it. Most likely this was due to how used to Windows I am and how much I hate having to "tinker" with computers when not at work. For me, "it just works" means using a Windows based device. As for the virus issues, the only Windows computer (that I personally own, not work with) I have any malware protection installed on is the one I torrent with and I've rarely ever had an issue. Of course this leads to all kinds of discussions about browsing habits and such that we could talk about all year.

At the end of the day, try'em both (if you haven't already) and decide which one you like better. That's most likely the one you'll be happy with (at least for the next 4-5 years until you upgrade again ).

Just my

[AD720]

Originally Posted by 357

I'm sure all the beta max owners felt the same way. Beta max claimed to be better, smaller, etc. At first it held its niche market. Soon less and less titles were released on beta max. It wasn't long after that it became obvious; the world had deemed it irrelevant...

...This is just one of the pains of using an OS that the world has deemed irrelevent...

Year -- Net Sales (Mil USD)
2002 -- 5,247
2003 -- 6,207
2004 -- 8,279
2005 -- 13,931
2006 -- 19,315
2007 -- 24,006
2008 -- 32,479


Irrelevant? Niche market?

Originally Posted by AD720

As someone who does run a quote/unquote "hackintosh" I would love to know the method to get OS X running on any off the shelf laptop, such as the $449.99 Toshiba satellite, that gets all of the components working, including the wireless card, audio I/O, etc that a regular end user can do. (besides netbooks)

Also this was not a totally hypothetical question.

[replicant_argent]

You should really look at the Groundbreaking Commodore 64.

Just Sayin'.

[GreekGodX]

Played with some laptops today. Only real way for me to get a true feel is to take it home and use it for a few days but an hour in best buy will have to cut it. To me if it wasn't for most software being written for Windows I don't see why people wouldn't buy an apple (price is another reason). I'm so leaning towards apple now it's pretty much sold.

I'm definitely going to have to talk to a few of you more in private, especially 357 about what to get. I want to make a smart decision.

[replicant_argent]

Betamax was actually preferred over VHS by the broadcast media professionals for many years, as I recall. Purely aside from the conversation, but if you are gonna blow smoke.....

[AD720]

Originally Posted by GreekGodX

Played with some laptops today. Only real way for me to get a true feel is to take it home and use it for a few days but an hour in best buy will have to cut it. To me if it wasn't for most software being written for Windows I don't see why people wouldn't buy an apple (price is another reason). I'm so leaning towards apple now it's pretty much sold.

I'm definitely going to have to talk to a few of you more in private, especially 357 about what to get. I want to make a smart decision.

The smart decision is to get the computer that works for you and what you want to do. They are not one-size-fits-all. For example, I couldn't imagine having one of those 17 inch "desktop replacement" laptops but other folks wouldn't know what to do on my 13.3 (or my mini 9 for that matter!).

Is there a specific piece of software that you are concerned will not work on/is not available for an Apple?

[GreekGodX]

Originally Posted by AD720

The smart decision is to get the computer that works for you and what you want to do. They are not one-size-fits-all. For example, I couldn't imagine having one of those 17 inch "desktop replacement" laptops but other folks wouldn't know what to do on my 13.3 (or my mini 9 for that matter!).

Is there a specific piece of software that you are concerned will not work on/is not available for an Apple?

No software concerns that I can foresee.

I'm not really a computer guy. I'm not really up to speed on computer technologies and what's available and what's good. So really I just want to get some help to make an educated decision as this isn't a cheap purchase.

[AD720]

Originally Posted by GreekGodX

No software concerns that I can foresee.

I'm not really a computer guy. I'm not really up to speed on computer technologies and what's available and what's good. So really I just want to get some help to make an educated decision as this isn't a cheap purchase.

Understood.

[King James]

Originally Posted by 357

I'm sure all the beta max owners felt the same way. Beta max claimed to be better, smaller, etc. At first it held its niche market. Soon less and less titles were released on beta max. It wasn't long after that it became obvious; the world had deemed it irrelevant..

At some point you will need Windows. Most likely it'll be some appliction or game you want that isn't offered for Macs. Then you get to try and figure out how to use some emulator or dual-boot option.

your arguments are getting worse an worse IMO.

I'm a university student and have never "needed" windows... I haven't used windows for 6 years. If I ever "needed" I would run bootcamp on my Mac....which like almost every other program they have (iweb, iphoto, etc) couldn't be easier to set up....hell even there back up program (time machine) sets itself up.

And I don't care if only 1% of the market uses Apple... I don't have viruses and love it.



here is the 1% hard at work (probably on facebook)

[goalie204]

Originally Posted by GreekGodX

I'm so leaning towards apple now it's pretty much sold.

I'm definitely going to have to talk to a few of you more in private, especially 357 about what to get. I want to make a smart decision.

woot if you need any advice post here or pm me i'll do my best

[shilala]

Originally Posted by GreekGodX

No software concerns that I can foresee.

I'm not really a computer guy. I'm not really up to speed on computer technologies and what's available and what's good. So really I just want to get some help to make an educated decision as this isn't a cheap purchase.

I mentioned earlier that this is the first time in my life I've ever considered owning an apple laptop or desktop, and I've been a windows developer since '99.
I spent a few years selling ipods on ebay, made lots of money.
Just recently got an iphone for my girlfriend and I, love them.
Have owned every ipod generation ever made, loved them all. The only one I haven't owned is the new shuffle and nano video, because I don't need them.
I absolutely love Apple.
Leo made really good points above. I'm kinda in the same boat as him.
Vista sucked while it was Longhorn. I have no idea what MS is doing, but they're crawling under my skin which each new release. Windows 7 can suck it, as far as I'm concerned. More crap.
The whole "viruses" argument is kinda retarded. It's much akin to "I might drop my laptop in the mud".
Don't drop it in the mud, and there's no mud.
I gather viruses to fix them because it's fun, and it's "what I do". But that's me. I understand most folks don't want that problem, and can't fix them, but it's a non-argument that comes up constantly and it's ridiculous.
Christos, buy that Apple. It's cool, it's swank, and Apple will cover your ass. Their customer service and presence is beyond reproach.
You'll be very happy, and that's what matters.
Just make sure the machine has an optical drive in it. Airbooks don't, and that makes for lots of pains in the butt you don't need.

[Footbag]

I've used Windows and Macs but I'm a Windows user primarily. These days, unless you have a specific program that you need a specific OS for, both are good choices. I've even dabbled in Ubuntu which I think is a great package for someone willing to take a bit of initiative, but those users are in the minority. I have been very impressed with Windows 7.

I personally think you can get a better hardware value by customizing a PC to your specific liking, but very few people chose to go that far.

BTW, I'm a PC user and an Apple shareholder.

[macpappy]

I have a spare two cents so I thought I would comment.

On the comparison of the Macbook to the cheap PC. While it mentions the PC has a webcam, built-in microphone, etc. it does not mention that all Macbooks comes with a built-in webcam/microphone, etc. Also does the PC come with a network card? The Mac laptops have built in airport (wireless) network cards and automatically searches for a wireless network when you turn on your computer. If you are going to do a comparison, then do an accurate comparison.

To the person who worked in "photography-journalism" for three years. I've been in the business since 1975 (back in the day when portable was a typewriter weighing under 10 lbs. and didn't plug into the wall) (Side note: Does anyone else remember working an a TRS-80?) I started using Mac's in 1986 and haven't looked back. If you are working in the graphic design, photography or journalism fields, the software you need use was probably written for the Mac before it was written for the PC.

As for the doctor who spent $4,000 on a Macbook. It just goes to prove you can be highly educated and an idiot all at the same time. I also know quite a few doctors because my daughter-in-law is one. They are about evenly split between Mac and PC users. Most of them don't care one way or the other as long as the machine works.

Dependability? My son bought a Dell Laptop a month after I purchased my 15" Macbook Pro in 2006. I am still using my MBP on a daily basis with no downtime. He has had to replace his Dell twice and had it in for repairs three other times. Don't know why the problems but the replacements were because the "motherboard" died both time. The "repairs" were because of viruses that weren't covered by the latest anti-viral software upgrades.

To the person is said he doesn't know of any situation where a Mac outperforms a PC (or something to that effect). You should start reading what many of the PC consumer magazines have been saying for years. They have done benchtests of comparable machines and the Macs win. Every year the do reviews and comparisons and generally the Mac comes out on top. Usually the only place the Mac loses is in price comparisons of bottom line machines and that because the Mac bottom line machine is not comparable to the PC bottom line machine.

What I can't understand is why there are so many "Mac-Haters" out there. Do you PC users think you are so superior to Mac users simply because there are more computer games written for your OS than a Mac?

The bottom line is simply BUY A COMPUTER THAT WILL DO WHAT YOU WANT IT TO DO AND SPEND THE MONEY YOU WANT TO SPEND ON IT. THEN LIVE WITH IT.

[357]

Originally Posted by AD720

Year -- Net Sales (Mil USD)
2002 -- 5,247
2003 -- 6,207
2004 -- 8,279
2005 -- 13,931
2006 -- 19,315
2007 -- 24,006
2008 -- 32,479


Irrelevant? Niche market?

This is big time misleading. You are counting iPhones and iPods. If we starting counting Windows Mobile phones and Microsoft Zune players, not to mention Netbooks, PDAs, and cash registers that run Windows CE Apple's numbers would look pretty puny.

From Business Insider...
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...s-sinks-2009-4

Apple's Mac business leveled out after strong growth last year. U.S. Mac shipments were down 1% year-over-year, representing 7.4% of the market, according to Gartner. But that's a significant deceleration after the company grew U.S. shipments about 33% year-over-year during Q1 '08. (And grew U.S. shipments 8% year-over-year in Q4 '08, according to Gartner.)



These kinds of stats are a little more reliable then the web statistics. By web stats I mean those where the website collects OS info and comes up with a count of how many Windows vs Mac users visit them. Those might be a more accurate picture of active web users vs current sales/market share.

Also this was not a totally hypothetical question.
[size=3]

There are a number of Hackintosh or Hackbook websites. Just about anything's possible with Google and a little savvy.

http://www.dailyblogged.com/83/dell-...-pro-tutorial/

http://www.hackintosh.com/

http://www.hackint0sh.org/



Here's is a good deal I helped my mom pick out recently. She picked it up last night.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0320534

$749.99
Intel® Core(tm) 2 Duo Processor T6600 (2.2 GHz)
4GB RAM
500GB Hard Drive
CD/DVD Writer DVD+/-RW Drive
7-in-1 Media Card Reader
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4330 (512 MB)
10/100 Network
802.11N Wireless Mini Card
17.3" High Definition+WLED Display with TrueLife(tm)
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (64-bit)

My mom has some old, scratch that, really old financial apps. So I found her the specs I recommended with Windows 7 Pro. Professional allows you to run the Windows XP compatibility mode. Since all her apps run fine on XP, this will ensure that even old 8 bit & 16 bit apps will run fine on this x64 version of Windows 7. Windows 7 Professional also offers full system backup software built in.

I would also like to mention that there has been a ton of conjecture. I have done my best to backup my positions with credible links. Mind you I'm not talking about Op-Ed type columns full of more conjecture. I'm not pointing any fingers, but an opinion is just that. Masquerading one's opinon as fact is another thing.

By the way, here's a list of just some of the software not compatible wit Mac OS X. I know it's an old list but you get the idea...

http://www.macintouch.com/leopard/compat.html

If you want a more complete list, walk into Best Buy, Micro Center, etc and start looking at the side of software boxes (especially games). You'll find that a staggering percentage of them don't have a little Apple logo on them.

[357]

and just for fun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEAGmBRC1dc

NSFW (language)

[Titan410]

Originally Posted by 357

and just for fun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEAGmBRC1dc

NSFW (language)

That's funny! Inaccurate, but Funny!

[King James]

Originally Posted by 357

This is big time misleading. You are counting iPhones and iPods. If we starting counting Windows Mobile phones and Microsoft Zune players, not to mention Netbooks, PDAs, and cash registers that run Windows CE Apple's numbers would look pretty puny.

From Business Insider...
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...s-sinks-2009-4

Apple's Mac business leveled out after strong growth last year. U.S. Mac shipments were down 1% year-over-year, representing 7.4% of the market, according to Gartner. But that's a significant deceleration after the company grew U.S. shipments about 33% year-over-year during Q1 '08. (And grew U.S. shipments 8% year-over-year in Q4 '08, according to Gartner.)



These kinds of stats are a little more reliable then the web statistics. By web stats I mean those where the website collects OS info and comes up with a count of how many Windows vs Mac users visit them. Those might be a more accurate picture of active web users vs current sales/market share.

Also this was not a totally hypothetical question.
[size=3]

There are a number of Hackintosh or Hackbook websites. Just about anything's possible with Google and a little savvy.

http://www.dailyblogged.com/83/dell-...-pro-tutorial/

http://www.hackintosh.com/

http://www.hackint0sh.org/



Here's is a good deal I helped my mom pick out recently. She picked it up last night.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0320534

$749.99
Intel® Core(tm) 2 Duo Processor T6600 (2.2 GHz)
4GB RAM
500GB Hard Drive
CD/DVD Writer DVD+/-RW Drive
7-in-1 Media Card Reader
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4330 (512 MB)
10/100 Network
802.11N Wireless Mini Card
17.3" High Definition+WLED Display with TrueLife(tm)
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (64-bit)

My mom has some old, scratch that, really old financial apps. So I found her the specs I recommended with Windows 7 Pro. Professional allows you to run the Windows XP compatibility mode. Since all her apps run fine on XP, this will ensure that even old 8 bit & 16 bit apps will run fine on this x64 version of Windows 7. Windows 7 Professional also offers full system backup software built in.

I would also like to mention that there has been a ton of conjecture. I have done my best to backup my positions with credible links. Mind you I'm not talking about Op-Ed type columns full of more conjecture. I'm not pointing any fingers, but an opinion is just that. Masquerading one's opinon as fact is another thing.

By the way, here's a list of just some of the software not compatible wit Mac OS X. I know it's an old list but you get the idea...

http://www.macintouch.com/leopard/compat.html

If you want a more complete list, walk into Best Buy, Micro Center, etc and start looking at the side of software boxes (especially games). You'll find that a staggering percentage of them don't have a little Apple logo on them.

The only problem with this entire debate is that both sides are trying to cite objective information for a subjective decision. Not that one shouldn't do research when buying a laptop, but it ultimately comes down to personal preference and there are machines in both camps capable of doing pretty much everything.

But I did notice you go to the "no games" arguement alot. Did he ever mention even playing games? I noticed its not in the first post in % of use, so why use that as an argument in this case?

[GreekGodX]

Originally Posted by King James

The only problem with this entire debate is that both sides are trying to cite objective information for a subjective decision. Not that one shouldn't do research when buying a laptop, but it ultimately comes down to personal preference and there are machines in both camps capable of doing pretty much everything.

But I did notice you go to the "no games" arguement alot. Did he ever mention even playing games? I noticed its not in the first post in % of use, so why use that as an argument in this case?

Jim you should win an award for best posts in this thread. You, shilala and a few others have some of the most relevant posts. No need for gaming on my end. I have a PS3 and my brother has a 360 so I got gaming covered.

A lot of people are right in saying buy what you like and are most happy/comfortable with. I like Apple the most. I'm most comfortable with a PC only because I've used it for so long. In the end I feel I'll be happy with a Apple.

Anyone know if any updates are coming out on either side? For example faster usb port? or anything like that?

I'm really enjoying the back and forth tho

[Footbag]

Originally Posted by GreekGodX

Anyone know if any updates are coming out on either side? For example faster usb port? or anything like that?

SSUSB or USB 3.0 will be out sometime next year, likely later in the year. Don't know when it will hit the market though. SATA 3 should be a big performance boost as well, but will probably be included in the same redesigns as the SSUSB.

IT has been my experience that waiting for the next best thing in computers is futile.

[shilala]

How bout a link to the machine you've chosen so we can pick that apart?
That'll be fun.