Official MMA Thread

[goalie204]

it was good, ive been talking mma on a lot of other forums, but ppl here seemed to have died off ;p

[LasciviousXXX]

Yeah it seems all the talk just dwindled over the last year.

I really enjoyed the Cruz/Faber fight. Man, Cruz has got a crazy unorthodox style. I was surprised he was able to keep up that pace through all 5 rounds. But who in the hell was the judge that scored it 50-45? What fight was he watching?

The Wand/Leben fight made me sad. I was really pulling for Wanderlei to restart his career but I didn't plan on him coming at Leben straight with zero defense. I mean everyone gets caught now and then but a straight rush, even if you are Wanderlei Silva, is never advisable.

Condit's flying knee knockout of Dong Hyun Kim was just so much fun to watch. Exceptional timing

Tito Ortiz.... man what a douchebag! I was hoping he would lose and retire but he got one over on poor Bader. Bader just gave him too much respect IMO and didn't go in there in an aggressive manner.

[yachties23]

Originally Posted by LasciviousXXX

Yeah it seems all the talk just dwindled over the last year.

I really enjoyed the Cruz/Faber fight. Man, Cruz has got a crazy unorthodox style. I was surprised he was able to keep up that pace through all 5 rounds. But who in the hell was the judge that scored it 50-45? What fight was he watching?

The Wand/Leben fight made me sad. I was really pulling for Wanderlei to restart his career but I didn't plan on him coming at Leben straight with zero defense. I mean everyone gets caught now and then but a straight rush, even if you are Wanderlei Silva, is never advisable.

Condit's flying knee knockout of Dong Hyun Kim was just so much fun to watch. Exceptional timing

Tito Ortiz.... man what a douchebag! I was hoping he would lose and retire but he got one over on poor Bader. Bader just gave him too much respect IMO and didn't go in there in an aggressive manner.

I assumed the 45-50 was a judge in Faber's pocket. I had a feeling for it being a close fight there would be no way for Faber to lose, they want to plaster his face on everything.

As for Ortiz, he has been and will continue to be a douche. He got lucky, and this only forces him to fight another top level opponent who will crush him.

Condit in my opinion is the 2nd best welterweight out there. He was jobbed over in the Kampmann decision, and should be in line for a title shot.

Overall a great card.

[goalie204]

the dennis siver - matt wiman judging was a joke, wiman won, but siver got the nod, usual horrible judging

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by goalie204

the dennis siver - matt wiman judging was a joke, wiman won, but siver got the nod, usual horrible judging

If Siver won because of the takedown defense, then I think it was excellent judging. I can't recall a past MMA fight that judges actually judged on takedown defense or defense in general. If that is how they came up with the total's then I think it shows promise for the judging. Maybe they are starting to realize, in MMA, that a great defense should also score points.

[yachties23]

Originally Posted by wayner123

If Siver won because of the takedown defense, then I think it was excellent judging. I can't recall a past MMA fight that judges actually judged on takedown defense or defense in general. If that is how they came up with the total's then I think it shows promise for the judging. Maybe they are starting to realize, in MMA, that a great defense should also score points.

One of the guys I watched the fight with thought Siver won based on the fact that he won rounds 1 and 3, and I can almost see his point. The scoring system is totally flawed. Siver took a huge amount of the damage in round two, and while it wasn't quite a 2 point round, the other two rounds could have gone either way, there is no doubt that Wiman won the second. It was the only round in which you can say there was a clear cut winner. In my mind there was never a point in which Siver could have won the fight, but easily could have lost it in the second round.

[goalie204]

Even if siver won 1 and 3, then it should have been a draw because 2 was a 10-8 round IMO

[LasciviousXXX]

Originally Posted by goalie204

Even if siver won 1 and 3, then it should have been a draw because 2 was a 10-8 round IMO

I tend to lean towards this line of thinking as well. Although Dana White and Lorenzo Fertitta disagree on who should have won the fight.

[LasciviousXXX]

It looks like the reign of the Last Emperor is "officially" over. 3 losses in a row for Fedor. Such a shame that the mighty have fallen.

[yachties23]

Originally Posted by LasciviousXXX

It looks like the reign of the Last Emperor is "officially" over. 3 losses in a row for Fedor. Such a shame that the mighty have fallen.

MMA is perhaps the only sport where your decline is so quick and almost unseen coming at its beginning.

[Bill86]

Originally Posted by LasciviousXXX

It looks like the reign of the Last Emperor is "officially" over. 3 losses in a row for Fedor. Such a shame that the mighty have fallen.

Alright someone has to say it. (pretty much all of this)

From a former UFC fan to a mostly non watcher since Pride went away.

First off I think the Hendo-Fedor stop was weak as hell. Hendo hit him a few times sure but they didn't even give him a chance to get up or try to? 3 seconds after Fedor gets dropped down it was stopped....is 3 seconds even enough time for someone to do anything? Especially a fighter of Fedors caliber, he should have gotten more time.

Seems like a setup for Dana to get the last laugh (kicking Fedor out because it took so long to get him.) He promptly kicks Fedor out. However he says Wanderlei Silva stays in the UFC no matter what his record is. Same with many other fighters. He has a grudge against Fedor.

Were all the Pride fighters on roids? They were all legends (Nogueira, Fedor, Cro Cop, Shogun, Wanderlei Silva) yet they are doing terrible in the UFC.

Is the cage to octagon THAT much of a difference?

Nogueira was knocked senseless in Pride for 33 fights, never got tko'd or ko'd it happens twice in 5 UFC fights?

Fedor never loses...28 fights in a row. He suffers 3 losses in a row under the UFC?

Cro Cop has a highlight reel of wicked head kicks, yet in the UFC he has yet to knock one fighter out with a head kick? Also why did he let Dos Santos beat him....watch the fight he walks right up to Dos Santos, lets him get a headlock clinch and knee the crap out of him.

Wanderlei Silva has 2 wins and 4 losses in the UFC. He was fighting A LOT more in Pride too, now he's got 6 fights in almost 4 years? Trains more, wins less

Shogun 6 fights in the UFC, loses half of them? How? His first fight he gases out? I just don't get it.

Rampage is doing OKAY, but all his fights are going to decision. Not the Pride rampage we all know and love. 6 out of his 9 fights went to decision

Are the rules in UFC not to their liking? This Hendo held Fedor for 2.5 minutes against the cage just doing minimal damage, is that wearing out these fighters out?

What gives, I want to know.

They all cannot be getting too old to fight.

Was Steroids the answer to all of my questions? Is the UFC out to get all the Pride fighters to prove the UFC always had the best fighters?

Are the refs getting paid off?

Bad matchups? What is it?

Are fighters like Cro Cop not interested in the poorly skilled opponents they are given and just taking the easy paychecks? I mean name one fighter that, according to Cro Cops Pride standards (BARELY losing to Fedor, whipping Big Nog around quite a bit), Cro Cop should have been fighting? MAYBE Mir? Everyone else on his list is mostly a no name fighter. Prior to fighting Cro Cop Dos Santos only beat ONE fighter with a name, Werdum. Mirko came into the UFC with back-back wins over Barnett and Wanderlei Silva in the same day, yet he gets Sanchez in the UFC? GTFO Here.

So many questions......Anyone have any ideas. This is why I stopped enjoying MMA.

No matter what this obviously answers the P4P king of the world question : Anderson Silva

/end ...this isn't really a rant more or less a very large series of questions.

[wayner123]

I'll give you my answers as I see them.



First off I think the Hendo-Fedor stop was weak as hell. Hendo hit him a few times sure but they didn't even give him a chance to get up or try to? 3 seconds after Fedor gets dropped down it was stopped....is 3 seconds even enough time for someone to do anything? Especially a fighter of Fedors caliber, he should have gotten more time. - I am a big fan of Fedor's but he was knocked out. As in unconscious. When that happens to any fighter the fight should be stopped. Very serious injury can come quickly if it's not.

Seems like a setup for Dana to get the last laugh (kicking Fedor out because it took so long to get him.) He promptly kicks Fedor out. However he says Wanderlei Silva stays in the UFC no matter what his record is. Same with many other fighters. He has a grudge against Fedor. - I agree I think he has a grudge against Fedor, but mainly more towards Fedor's promotion.

Were all the Pride fighters on roids? They were all legends (Nogueira, Fedor, Cro Cop, Shogun, Wanderlei Silva) yet they are doing terrible in the UFC. - I am not sure. They got tested, but it seems it wasn't as big of an issue.

Is the cage to octagon THAT much of a difference? - Yes and No. The cage is a small factor. I think the bigger factors are the difference in rules and round times. Pride was 10 minute first round and you couldn't elbow a downed opponent. For a grappler that makes a world of difference. And for a striker you know you have more time and have to adjust.

Nogueira was knocked senseless in Pride for 33 fights, never got tko'd or ko'd it happens twice in 5 UFC fights? - Age, pure and simple.

Fedor never loses...28 fights in a row. He suffers 3 losses in a row under the UFC? - IMO, I think Fedor went the route that many great fighters do and paid for it just like they did. When he fought Hong Man Choi it was more of an exhibition. And just like Ali, Forman, etc who fought exhibition fights before him, He got beat up pretty bad in that fight. I don't think his brain ever recovered. Come then to the Strikeforce and he gets tagged by Brett Rogers, again brain is damaged. Then UFC and, well, your brain can only take so much. I think that is what is happening now. Just like Wanderlei gets knocked out every time now, a fighter only has so many knockouts in them. I have seen this time and time again in boxing.

Cro Cop has a highlight reel of wicked head kicks, yet in the UFC he has yet to knock one fighter out with a head kick? Also why did he let Dos Santos beat him....watch the fight he walks right up to Dos Santos, lets him get a headlock clinch and knee the crap out of him. - This one is easier to explain. Cro Cop was never the same after Gonzaga caught him. ANY fighter can be caught by surprise.

Wanderlei Silva has 2 wins and 4 losses in the UFC. He was fighting A LOT more in Pride too, now he's got 6 fights in almost 4 years? Trains more, wins less - Wanderlei has just taken too many hits to the head.

Shogun 6 fights in the UFC, loses half of them? How? His first fight he gases out? I just don't get it. - I never was a fan of Shogun. I do think though that he is one of the fighters in who the round time differences between Pride and UFC is something that can be seen. Big Nog is another one.

Rampage is doing OKAY, but all his fights are going to decision. Not the Pride rampage we all know and love. 6 out of his 9 fights went to decision - Age, and maybe Hollywood.

Are the rules in UFC not to their liking? This Hendo held Fedor for 2.5 minutes against the cage just doing minimal damage, is that wearing out these fighters out? - See above on the explanation of rules and round times differences.

As to the rest of the questions. It seems you are a Cro Cop fan. I was never a huge fan of his, but I truly think his best days are past him. That Gonzaga fight not only did something to him physically, but he never was the same emotionally or mentally.

[Bill86]

I appreciate the response and I think you make some great points.

Age can be a factor but I dunno...I guess I just think all of them being 32-36 doesn't seem like it should have hit them all at the same time and RIGHT when they join the UFC their careers take a complete 180. That for me doesn't add up.

I still cannot see the reasoning for Dana/UFC giving Cro Cop tins cans.....That cannot be explained, he came off 2 BIG wins in one night in Pride. Everyone else got a fairly decent fighter going in, why not Mirko?

I dunno I just feel for 5 different fighters (most will go down as legends in the sport, if not all of them) to have the same effects from joining the UFC something must be going on.

Either Prides drug testing wasn't the best, or one of the organizations was fixing fights, paying refs, or some really BIAS refereeing going on.

I think the UFC is using the Pride fighters names and legacies to hype up these mediocre new guys to take over for the new generation. Picking bad fights, frustrating the fighters (Brock gets a title shot on his 3rd fight EVER?) and bullying them around buying up every promotion that pays worth a $hit. Also some of these guys get in the ring once a year, not nearly enough to keep their skills up.

Further more, Hendo, Tito, Randy all left....and were forced to come back. There is nowhere else to go. To me this is the death of MMA. The UFC can do whatever they want, how long before they start fixing fights right in front of you like wrestling?

[wayner123]

I still cannot see the reasoning for Dana/UFC giving Cro Cop tins cans.....That cannot be explained, he came off 2 BIG wins in one night in Pride. Everyone else got a fairly decent fighter going in, why not Mirko? - Contracts are contracts. At the time Cro Cop was not that big out the MMA circles. It's like a cigar forum. Sure most everyone knows who "PJ" is when referring to cigars, but outside this forum is another story.


I dunno I just feel for 5 different fighters (most will go down as legends in the sport, if not all of them) to have the same effects from joining the UFC something must be going on. - Yes, something is going on. It's called gaming commissions. The pride gaming commissions were set up to have a 10 minute first round and no elbows to a downed opponent. Also if you were broke up because you were against the ropes, you got back into the same position in the middle of the ring, not stood back up to strike. Those may seem like simple things, but from the fighters prep, game plan, etc they are HUGE!


Either Prides drug testing wasn't the best, or one of the organizations was fixing fights, paying refs, or some really BIAS refereeing going on. - Nah I don't think there is some big conspiracy here.


I think the UFC is using the Pride fighters names and legacies to hype up these mediocre new guys to take over for the new generation. Picking bad fights, frustrating the fighters (Brock gets a title shot on his 3rd fight EVER?) and bullying them around buying up every promotion that pays worth a $hit. Also some of these guys get in the ring once a year, not nearly enough to keep their skills up. - Dana and Zuffa have never been shy to let you know straight up they promote fights which are going to pay off the most. Sure I think there are more deserving people, but in the end it's a business and they promote who is going to sell tickets and PPV.


Further more, Hendo, Tito, Randy all left....and were forced to come back. There is nowhere else to go. To me this is the death of MMA. The UFC can do whatever they want, how long before they start fixing fights right in front of you like wrestling? - I don't know how long you have been watching UFC. I have watched it from the very beginning. I remember sitting down with my brother and Dad and thinking this was going to be like the WCW fights maybe a little more. But from the second match, I knew this was something different. We all turned to each other and said "This is for real". I doubt you will ever see MMA turn into what the WCW and WWF have in WWE. Furthermore, it's a different genre all together really. Where I think MMA is having it's best advances is that it's filling the large gap left by boxing and the champions from before. They may seem like the only game in town for now, but there are a large number of other organizations that are looking to get a piece of that pie. I guess I am saying, like Fedor, the UFC will have to get knocked out eventually.

[goalie204]

http://msn.foxsports.com/boxing/stor...ar-deal-081811

[goalie204]

omg @ the boxing fight, watch this, amazing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMszKiXFtvo

[J0eybb]

Originally Posted by goalie204

omg @ the boxing fight, watch this, amazing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMszKiXFtvo

Haha, missed the fight, LoL

[yachties23]

Tonight should be a solid card. I still think Jones is untouchable, but looking forward to it.

[goalie204]

i got a few bets down

[goalie204]