NHL '09 - '10 Thread

[sikk50]

Lets go DUCKS!!

[Prefy]

First preseason game for Les Habitants tonight...could be an interesting year!

GO HABS GO!!!

Gotta keep your head up and chin strap tight!

CLICK ME

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by ahc4353

Gotta keep your head up and chin strap tight!

CLICK ME

Monster Hit!

Wild seeing Theo Fleury back in the NHL...he scored the only shootout goal to win the game.

[Prefy]

Originally Posted by ahc4353

Gotta keep your head up and chin strap tight!

CLICK ME

Don't like seeing guys get hurt but I'm sure he has learnt his lesson about cutting across the middle with his head down especially when a guy like Paneuf is on the ice.

What I don't like is that it seems now a days in the NHL even when there is a good hit(I don't think he left his feet) the other team feels the need to start a line brawl or go after the guy that laid the hit(coming of the bench WTF!!!). Back in the day the other team would have kept it in their back of their mind and used it to fire the team up and get even at a later point in time.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Prefy

Don't like seeing guys get hurt but I'm sure he has learnt his lesson about cutting across the middle with his head down especially when a guy like Paneuf is on the ice.

What I don't like is that it seems now a days in the NHL even when there is a good hit(I don't think he left his feet) the other team feels the need to start a line brawl or go after the guy that laid the hit(coming of the bench WTF!!!). Back in the day the other team would have kept it in their back of their mind and used it to fire the team up and get even at a later point in time.

That kid will get 10 games for coming off the bench.

Matt, back in the day they may have done what you suggest...but WAY back in the day, there would have been a bench clearing brawl....happened about once a week in the 70s. Glad that the NHL has moved past that stage.

Originally Posted by icehog3

That kid will get 10 games for coming off the bench.

Matt, back in the day they may have done what you suggest...but WAY back in the day, there would have been a bench clearing brawl....happened about once a week in the 70s. Glad that the NHL has moved past that stage.

Might not. Watch real close, one guy was head in the door as he came over the boards. Then the guy who was leaving came back. They could claim he was just changing lines.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by ahc4353

Might not. Watch real close, one guy was head in the door as he came over the boards. Then the guy who was leaving came back. They could claim he was just changing lines.

The kid's rep (596 PIMs last season in juniors) will not help.

Originally Posted by icehog3

The kid's rep (596 PIMs last season in juniors) will not help.

That guy spent almost 10hrs in the box!

[Ahbroody]

Originally Posted by Prefy

Don't like seeing guys get hurt but I'm sure he has learnt his lesson about cutting across the middle with his head down especially when a guy like Paneuf is on the ice.

What I don't like is that it seems now a days in the NHL even when there is a good hit(I don't think he left his feet) the other team feels the need to start a line brawl or go after the guy that laid the hit(coming of the bench WTF!!!). Back in the day the other team would have kept it in their back of their mind and used it to fire the team up and get even at a later point in time.

I would be suprised if he didnt already know not to do this seeing as how he is playing in the show and had a fairly decent year on the islanders last year. Pretty sure he knows how to play the game. That said he made a mistake and he more than payed for it. There are two sides to this for sure. He is a fairly talented player though. I am not a big Phenuf guy so my view on this is likely impacted by that. Running someone like that in pre season is bush. The games dont count and you got rookies and even some jrs players out there generally.


Change this to Phenuf destroying some jr player and ending his chances to play in the pros in preseason in a meaningless game and maybe it looks different.

Just another view. Yes it was a monster hit and a thing of beauty to watch. That said its not game 7, its a meaningless preseason game.

OOOh and Tom I love the fact that theo is back. Love that little bastage. I always though he should have been nicknamed "the little ball of hate" not pat verbeek

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

I would be suprised if he didnt already know not to do this seeing as how he is playing in the show and had a fairly decent year on the islanders last year. Pretty sure he knows how to play the game. That said he made a mistake and he more than payed for it. There are two sides to this for sure. He is a fairly talented player though. I am not a big Phenuf guy so my view on this is likely impacted by that. Running someone like that in pre season is bush. The games dont count and you got rookies and even some jrs players out there generally.


Change this to Phenuf destroying some jr player and ending his chances to play in the pros in preseason in a meaningless game and maybe it looks different.

Just another view. Yes it was a monster hit and a thing of beauty to watch. That said its not game 7, its a meaningless preseason game.

OOOh and Tom I love the fact that theo is back. Love that little bastage. I always though he should have been nicknamed "the little ball of hate" not pat verbeek

"Running" a guy and a clean hit are two completely different things in my book and as far as I can see it was clean.

If they are meaningless why play them?

I think preseason games are there for the simple reason coaches want to see how guys on the cut off "bubble" handle a real game. What if one of the Junior guys puts a hit like that on someone? His stock would rise considerably in the coach's eyes. And don't think for a second a young defensmen trying to earn a spot on a NHL roster wouldn't give his left nut to make a hit like that.

I have always told my boys (both D men) to practice like you want to play. It's part of the game and every guy that pulls that sweater over his head knows it.

Have a great weekend!

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

I would be suprised if he didnt already know not to do this seeing as how he is playing in the show and had a fairly decent year on the islanders last year. Pretty sure he knows how to play the game. That said he made a mistake and he more than payed for it. There are two sides to this for sure. He is a fairly talented player though. I am not a big Phenuf guy so my view on this is likely impacted by that. Running someone like that in pre season is bush. The games dont count and you got rookies and even some jrs players out there generally.


Change this to Phenuf destroying some jr player and ending his chances to play in the pros in preseason in a meaningless game and maybe it looks different.

Just another view. Yes it was a monster hit and a thing of beauty to watch. That said its not game 7, its a meaningless preseason game.

OOOh and Tom I love the fact that theo is back. Love that little bastage. I always though he should have been nicknamed "the little ball of hate" not pat verbeek

The Flames are my team but I try not to be a homer. I actually don't like Phaneuf, (and I mean personally) he has his ups and downs last year was a down and part of his game that was gone was that fear when he is out there (ala Scott Stevens) I watched the game (not just the U-Tube hit) and it was a clean hit on a guy that was carrying the puck through the zone. Now you know I luv ya Mike (even if you are a sharks fan ) but if you watch the hit (there are a few more angles on the flames website) it was not bush.

Okposo had his head down (dumb) and was carrying the puck. He took Phaneuf's shoulder in the noggin, Phaneuf didn't leave his fit, didn't charge it was all good. The bad part is someone getting hurt, if Okposo pops up and skates off this is a non issue no penalty on the hit, no further investigation by the league (so I am told). The bush part is several Islanders coming after him after a clean hit, I am so tired of half assed players running after every guy that hits a player cleanly (and yes even the flames are guilty of it ala Ollie fighting I don't remember who after Backlund got leveled cleanly).

Hitting is part of the game, and a good clean hit should not be measured by the fact that a guy got hurt (he is ok by the way) no more than a dirty hit should be measured by lack of injury.

Just my opinion.....................well that and Mike is wrong

[Ahbroody]

Originally Posted by ahc4353

"Running" a guy and a clean hit are two completely different things in my book and as far as I can see it was clean.

If they are meaningless why play them?

I think preseason games are there for the simple reason coaches want to see how guys on the cut off "bubble" handle a real game. What if one of the Junior guys puts a hit like that on someone? His stock would rise considerably in the coach's eyes. And don't think for a second a young defensmen trying to earn a spot on a NHL roster wouldn't give his left nut to make a hit like that.

I have always told my boys (both D men) to practice like you want to play. It's part of the game and every guy that pulls that sweater over his head knows it.

Have a great weekend!

Clearly you are playing at words here.

You can run a guy in the course of the game and have it be clean and part of the game. Running a guy to us on the west coast comes from the phrase ran him over. That is what Phenuf did. He ran him over. The issue I was attempting to address is was that hit needed between two players who both have established spots on a squad? They dont play in the same division or even confrence. They may play once again this season, but likely not. There was no message to be sent for the regular season and the odds of them meeting in the post season are zero. The point of the hit was what? Nothing. It was Phenuf doing what Phenuf does. He injured a player which may have long term effects in a meaningless preseason game.

By meaningless we both know I meant they do not count towards stats and chances at a cup which is the whole purpose why every regualr season game and playoff game is played. They are meaningless to stats and chances at a cup. Stuff like this is why many teams sit out certain players. They dont want or need as you pointed out some jr player trying to render a big hit on a star player to make a roster spot.

As to practice like you play. I agree yo always practice and play hard. That said Al I cant find a reason why Phenuf needed to level the guy in a pre season game. He is not a bubble player. He is known for hunting players with their head down and laying them out.

What purpose did the hit serve to the flames chances of winning a cup?
Maybe you will argue that the hit will set the tone for the whole season. I am not buying that and that was not in Phenufs head when he made the hit. He saw a guy to level. He probablly saw him with his head down earlier in the game and figured if he would run him if he got the chance. Watching the replay he lined that dude up and destroyed him. It could have ended a lot worse for oposo. I am glad it appears it didnt. I hope he has no lingering effects that impact his season as a result.

I know you like the hit. I guess we can agree to disagree. maybe in 12 years I will hold the same view on this. Currently I dont.

I don't understand why you should back off in a pre-season game.

Do you think any player is running through his head, who is this guy?, will I face him again?, etc etc?

Based on what your saying every hit should be weighed against a certain set of criteria that could/would change every game.

These guys do this on instinct, guys like Stevens for example are better at it than most.

[Prefy]

Couldn't agree with Al or Shawn more.

Play hard no matter what. What would the coaching staff/management say if they saw that same situation and Paneuf choose not to make the hit and Osposko gets through and a breakaway and scores.

And just as info around here running a guy is when he clearly does not have the puck you are a couple strides away and you still bury him.



God I love this game!

[Ahbroody]

Man I love stirring the nest and watching you guys get all jacked up jumping over each other to get in the mix.


Shawn please re read my posts I never said it was dirty. In fact I repeatedly said it was a clean hit. I am saying it was bush cause I just dont get leveling a guy in a pre season game. We will all continue to argue about this. As I said before and am saying again this is one of the reasons teams sit out star players in preseason. There is no point to the game and why risk a star players injury in an meaningless game.

Originally Posted by ahc4353

I don't understand why you should back off in a pre-season game.

Do you think any player is running through his head, who is this guy?, will I face him again?, etc etc?

Based on what your saying every hit should be weighed against a certain set of criteria that could/would change every game.

These guys do this on instinct, guys like Stevens for example are better at it than most.

As I said repeatedly we disagree as to why I think you should not level someone in a preseason game. Especially one against a team in a different confrence who you will not see again.

As to whats in the head. Al I have taken penalties as I am sure every poster here has on guys in rec league. If I can know who is on the ice and that they fugged with me or a teamate previously and I need to go say high and remind them we wont take it, then yes NHL players know. I am not a big guy or super faster nhl player. When I play I know damn well who is on the sheet when I step on because at that moment its my job.

Originally Posted by Prefy

Couldn't agree with Al or Shawn more.

Play hard no matter what. What would the coaching staff/management say if they saw that same situation and Paneuf choose not to make the hit and Osposko gets through and a breakaway and scores.

We have all played here so I am not going to go through the list of ways he could have played it differently getting the puck and not laying him out. If he couldnt stop him without laying the shoulder to the head hit then he will be worse then -11 this year. I will just leave this one alone.

Originally Posted by ahc4353

And just as info around here running a guy is when he clearly does not have the puck you are a couple strides away and you still bury him.



God I love this game!

Really? what about when you run someone on the boards from behind? He has the puck and you run his ass over and crush him? Is that not running a guy? I hear everyone else call it running a guy besides it being boarding. I will use my term for running a guy which applies to running over a guy with or without the puck and whether he is in the open ice or on the boards.

now as jim rome used to say. React to me. I hope no one is upset with me playing devils advocate. If so just let me know and I will stop.

Micah starts minimites tomorrow and I am pretty jacked up about it. Down the road I go to financial ruin Al and I couldnt be happier. Looks like I wont be playing much anymore now cant afford it.

[Prefy]

This isn't the all star game its exhibition and iregardless It was clean...they are professionals...they know the risk.

Keep your head up and this won't happen, simple as that.

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

Man I love stirring the nest and watching you guys get all jacked up jumping over each other to get in the mix.


Shawn please re read my posts I never said it was dirty. In fact I repeatedly said it was a clean hit. I am saying it was bush cause I just dont get leveling a guy in a pre season game. We will all continue to argue about this. As I said before and am saying again this is one of the reasons teams sit out star players in preseason. There is no point to the game and why risk a star players injury in an meaningless game.



As I said repeatedly we disagree as to why I think you should not level someone in a preseason game. Especially one against a team in a different confrence who you will not see again.So when Mitch plays in a showcase against a Canadian team and college scouts are there I should tell him, "hey, back off, don't level anyone you won't see these guys again". RIGHT!

.......

We have all played here so I am not going to go through the list of ways he could have played it differently getting the puck and not laying him out. If he couldnt stop him without laying the shoulder to the head hit then he will be worse then -11 this year. I will just leave this one alone.

It's his job.



Really? what about when you run someone on the boards from behind? He has the puck and you run his ass over and crush him? Is that not running a guy? I hear everyone else call it running a guy besides it being boarding. I will use my term for running a guy which applies to running over a guy with or without the puck and whether he is in the open ice or on the boards.

Bording is bording. Running is what I explained. Cali girl hockey might be different. (Hence the pink text )

now as jim rome used to say. React to me. I hope no one is upset with me playing devils advocate. If so just let me know and I will stop.

Micah starts minimites tomorrow and I am pretty jacked up about it. Down the road I go to financial ruin Al and I couldnt be happier. Looks like I wont be playing much anymore now cant afford it.

Sounds like you're gonna be a forward dad.

[icehog3]

For what it's worth, Scott Burnside is questioning the "necessity" of the hit on ESPN.com as well.

EDIT...it is on "The Insider" (subscription based), so I posted it here.

Ouch! That's about all I can say after viewing the YouTube video of Dion Phaneuf's monster open-ice hit on Islanders winger Kyle Okposo during Thursday night's Isles-Flames preseason game in Calgary.

In a Scott Stevens moment, Phaneuf slid over from his position on right defense to crunch an unsuspecting Okposo, who'd actually been nudged into harm's way by backchecking Flames forward Nigel Dawes. The seismic blow left the 6-foot-1, 200-pound forward crumpled on the ice in need of medical attention. As a precaution, Okposo was taken off the ice on a stretcher. Late Thursday night, Islanders spokesman Seth Sylvan updated Okposo's condition via text message, saying: "[Okposo] had a mild concussion. He'd undergone a CAT scan and he was cleared to return to the team's training camp [in] Saskatoon."

We hope Okposo will be no worse for the wear after the mind-numbing hit. With head injuries, it's hard to form a clear prognosis for recovery. It could be a day or a career. In this case, we hope it's the former.

While I'm not going to hammer Phaneuf for taking his shot, I do wonder whether it's really worth the risk in a preseason game. I mean, if Okposo had made a split-second move or brought his stick up, Phaneuf could have ended up on the wrong end of it.

It also made me wonder about the league's training camp schedule. While I know today's players come to camp in terrific shape, I still find it odd that they have just a day or two or three of camp before jumping into their exhibition schedules. I don't how guys can be ready for game competition that quickly.

Perhaps the Devils have the right idea, playing only one game in the first 10 days of camp. It gives them more practice time to prepare and get themselves up to speed for game play. After all, these are competitive guys by nature. Under game conditions, even in a preseason game, that nature clicks in. It's why Scott Stevens just shrugged at me several years back when I asked him why he was blocking shots in a meaningless exhibition game. His wordless response simply said, "It's what I do."

Interestingly, the Flames and Islanders will meet again Saturday night in Saskatoon. I'll be curious as to whether new Flames head coach Brent Sutter opts to rest Phaneuf for that one.

There was another story that came out of Thursday's Flames-Isles game. It was the return of longtime Flames sniper Theo Fleury, who hadn't played an NHL game since April 4, 2003. The diminutive 41-year-old thrilled the home crowd by scoring the game-winning shootout goal. On the night, he received 10:56 minutes, recording one shot, one takeaway and one hit, as well as the shootout winner. I figure he's a long shot to make the club's NHL roster, but if he wants to continue playing, he could end up with Flames' new AHL affiliate in Abbotsford, British Columbia. I'm pretty sure he'd be a nice box-office attraction for the new franchise.