It's happend

[AAlmeter]

Originally Posted by Andyman

This is where the problem lies.

This is not just a cyber board. I have met many many people and consider many of you my friends. It's not just a game.

This brings me to my next point. Jon Caputo is a real person as well. Like him or hate him this is not a game to him. He has invested a lot of money and time into this venture. Agree with his business or not this is real life to him. To us maybe it's a stupid forum. To him it's a lot more than that. If you met someone in person and came into their business and started harassing them and saying bad things about them to their clients. You would probibly be sued for slander. How is this any different? Why are we treating another human being this way?

You don't have to agree with it. You don't have to subscribe to the Puff lifestyle. Weather we think he deserves this or not. It's not really our call.


let it go..

Agreed. I've actually been in contact with Jon a few times tonight (I'm just a gotta have the last word kinda guy).

After a request for "constructive feedback", I laid out much of this to him. Many resented him for taking over on the basis of profit. I think this is silly. The board had grown to the point where it could no longer be a hobby for anyone but the wealthy. It is silly to think that it wouldn't turn into that.

However, I did greatly criticize his actions in handling this initial backlash.

In my opinion, he is handled it with very little professionalism. I like to think of it as Walmart moving in on mom and pop. It sucks, but its the nature of the beast. However, for Walmart to start blacklisting people for not liking the change, asking what aisle the depends are in, etc is absolutely horrible business. From the standpoint of the community as well as the business that Jon now runs, its a bad move on his part.

However, I can fully understand Jon's frustration and anger in dealing with many...especially at the outset of the change, who in my opinion took every opportunity to cause trouble in the name of the community...a community which many of them had only been members of for a short period of time.

In my opinion, there has been altogether too much flexing of phony muscle on CS/Puff, from both sides of the aisle.

None of this detracts, in my opinion, from what I have witnessed with Jon, mainly his acting like an asshole, as well as any claims of his dishonesty, which I cannot verify or disprove.

[Asher]

Originally Posted by RX2010

don't worry, Jon's actions will work themselves out

It puts a smile on my face just to think about how much money he must be losing.

[madurolover]

Originally Posted by Asher

It puts a smile on my face just to think about how much money he must be losing.

For some reason I do not think that Jon is hurting financially.

[DrDubzz]

Originally Posted by madurolover

For some reason I do not think that Jon is hurting financially.

well he certainly never spent much on cigars, anyone else remember that weak-A humidor? (in terms of what was in it, the humi wasn't half bad)

Originally Posted by madurolover

For some reason I do not think that Jon is hurting financially.

Well, not yet anyway.

This just goes to prove a point, you can buy a forum and webspace and serverspace. You can buy a logo and a list of users but you CAN'T buy people. We are not slaves or endentured servants and we the people will revolt, or is that we the people are revolting? Anyway, you catch my drift.

Cheers,
Rob

[BigBruce]

Wow I think they banned that newt guy. Guess he came off wrong but that went down hill fast.

[a2vr6]

Originally Posted by madurolover

For some reason I do not think that Jon is hurting financially.

Not as former head sales for Sun, he was easily pulling in high 6 figures plus bonuses.

[madurolover]

Originally Posted by No1der

Well, not yet anyway.

This just goes to prove a point, you can buy a forum and webspace and serverspace. You can buy a logo and a list of users but you CAN'T buy people. We are not slaves or endentured servants and we the people will revolt, or is that we the people are revolting? Anyway, you catch my drift.

Cheers,
Rob

I don't think he will go broke. The site is not going to survive because of long-term members. Just like DevShed which is another site he did the same thing with. While there are some regulars there it is mostly people who come on, ask a question and get it answered. They then move on until they have another question. The site probably gets 1,000's of clicks a day. That is where the money comes from. Not long time members but site traffic. He may not be a BOTL but he is a businessman and you can believe that.

[Asher]

Originally Posted by madurolover

For some reason I do not think that Jon is hurting financially.

Maybe not, but between the costs of buying the sites (I don't know how much he paid for CS, CL, and CR, but his $50k offer for CigarPass is public knowledge), the "puff.com" domain name, graphic design, hosting, etc., I highly doubt that his investment is paying off the way he had hoped.

Originally Posted by madurolover

I don't think he will go broke. The site is not going to survive because of long-term members. Just like DevShed which is another site he did the same thing with. While there are some regulars there it is mostly people who come on, ask a question and get it answered. They then move on until they have another question. The site probably gets 1,000's of clicks a day. That is where the money comes from. Not long time members but site traffic. He may not be a BOTL but he is a businessman and you can believe that.

Well, I'll tell you what my hope is. I hope that he learns a lesson that you can't treat people like garbage. I hope he takes a bath on this one and seeing how the economy is and that the mini-boom is over with this is more likely than not.

What you just said about his business model is very sad. At least to me it's sad.

Cheers,
Rob

In the end, a website is more about branding than anything else, I think. The business approach thus was not well thought out. What the fellow that bought those 3 sites should have done was kept the branding of either the largest site or the site with the most cohessive population. Then, he should have added the coupling interfaces necessary, given the members of the other 2 sites a chance to migrate over themselves and then finally couple the 3 sites together under the name and branding of the established "mother" site.

I wonder if this whole thing would have taken another form if one of the main sites had been preserved. Would the same level of fighting and anger be present if something call "club stogie" was still present?

Then again, it may be fortunate that it has taken on a whole new identity. It may actually offer people a quicker and more complete "closure" knowing that CS is gone, as opposed to them hating how CS has changed.

But, I should probably just go to bed.

Cheers

Cyanide

[white_s2k]

Originally Posted by madurolover

For some reason I do not think that Jon is hurting financially.

As we have seen in the past months.. money does not buy members. You may, or may not be a testament to that (publicly). But it is apparent.

[madurolover]

Originally Posted by white_s2k

As we have seen in the past months.. money does not buy members. You may, or may not be a testament to that (publicly). But it is apparent.

I agree, but as I stated above, as long as there are clicks the number of members is basically moot.

[renton20]

Although I am not nearly as eloquent as many who have already posted I feel a strong desire to express my feeling about what is going on over there in a place where I will not be punished for it, i.e. not there. I joined clubstogie because I had a few questions about cigars that I wanted answered. What I found was a community of people who were truly passionate about something that they enjoyed.

I was told to start trading and received a great selection including my first ISOM as a result. More than that, with the trading I really began to feel as I have never before in my life that the world is a very small place. The fact that I could take some cigars, package them up, and for $5 send them from MN to SC in two days blew my mind.

Even more, the fact that some one who had years of cigar experience on me was willing, even eager, to send me something simply because he thought that I would enjoy it took me a little time to understand.

The point that I am trying to get to is that JC bought a business but lost, through his own mismanagement, its soul. He will still make money on it because of the size, which is all he really cares about. I think that I am simply going to stop logging on. The soul and the community is here. People that I know and feel privileged to call friends are here. I just feel bad for those that called the place home for much longer than I did. I joined back in may. Though I did spend an obsessive amount of time there it must be much worse for those of you who were there for years and years. Let's just keep the spirit alive guys. We may have switched buildings, but it's still the same bar.

Josh

[white_s2k]

Originally Posted by madurolover

I agree, but as I stated above, as long as there are clicks the number of members is basically moot.

I agree there. Hopefully, as the hype wears off the true numbers will emerge.

facebook owns my arse... damn them and their catchy little apps. there's a business model that works.

[madurolover]

Originally Posted by renton20

Although I am not nearly as eloquent as many who have already posted I feel a strong desire to express my feeling about what is going on over there in a place where I will not be punished for it, i.e. not there. I joined clubstogie because I had a few questions about cigars that I wanted answered. What I found was a community of people who were truly passionate about something that they enjoyed.

I was told to start trading and received a great selection including my first ISOM as a result. More than that, with the trading I really began to feel as I have never before in my life that the world is a very small place. The fact that I could take some cigars, package them up, and for $5 send them from MN to SC in two days blew my mind.

Even more, the fact that some one who had years of cigar experience on me was willing, even eager, to send me something simply because he thought that I would enjoy it took me a little time to understand.

The point that I am trying to get to is that JC bought a business but lost, through his own mismanagement, its soul. He will still make money on it because of the size, which is all he really cares about. I think that I am simply going to stop logging on. The soul and the community is here. People that I know and feel privileged to call friends are here. I just feel bad for those that called the place home for much longer than I did. I joined back in may. Though I did spend an obsessive amount of time there it must be much worse for those of you who were there for years and years. Let's just keep the spirit alive guys. We may have switched buildings, but it's still the same bar.

Josh

I call BS!

That was stated as well as anyone could hope to say it (except maybe Da Klugs).

Excellent post!

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by madurolover

In the past few days (8- 10) I have received PM's from some of the members here that seem to be held in high regard. I will not name them but I will tell you that never have I got such nasty, vile messages from people that I consider my "brothers".

Donnie, Aaron, Ji and Dave tried to help a place that at one time the vast majority of us loved. They did nothing wrong by trying to help steer CS (and eventually PVff) towards a better place. I think it was inevitable that it would not work.

That being said....Ladies and Gentlemen...Inmates.....

I think we have all had our say, some have had their bashing (I was admittedly one of the worst)...but now I think it is time to get back to what brought us together here in the first place....Friendship and Cigars.

Shawn put it wisely, and more than 100 posts later, I respectfully ask that we put this to bed, get positive about the great Haven we have all created here, and focus our energy on the Inmates of the Asylum.Tom

[Nick]

I agree. Very well said.

[Nick]

Don't forget us pipers, we are BOTL's too.