RH Question

[Bill86]

Originally Posted by md4958

Tom became an ordained minister online, if we do it in Vegas we dont even have to wait for a marriage license.

Well crap what am I waiting for!?!?!

Oh yeah the right goat

[Devanmc]

Originally Posted by md4958

This isnt even the most ridiculous thing posted in this thread

Originally Posted by md4958

This isnt even the most ridiculous thing posted in this thread

So my posts are? Because I feel KL is an acceptable means for humidification? This is why I posted in here to begin with is the fact that all some of you will accept KL for is a litter box. Now maybe I didnt start with a great topic but How On Earth is KL vs Beads debate this volatile? Is this how people with a differing opinion is treated here? I would have better luck signing you up for a Ponzi scheme or switching yall to communism than having you allow me to say KL works? I may not always agree with some opinions and I dont shy a why from expressing mine but this is more than that for yall. Why?

[Bill86]

No it isn't honestly Josh, you just had the bad luck of starting off with one of the more controversial topics in your first few posts or maybe even first post.

You have to understand many people here have been smoking cigars for 10-40 years, maybe longer. They have A LOT of experience, you should really take their advice or at least listen to it. As a new comer you want to more or less ask for advise and be willing to accept it and criticism so you can be led down the right path.

There's a reason people here have cigars that are 40-80 years old. They are VERY VERY well maintained.

[Devanmc]

Originally Posted by Bill86

No it isn't honestly Josh, you just had the bad luck of starting off with one of the more controversial topics in your first few posts or maybe even first post.

You have to understand many people here have been smoking cigars for 10-40 years, maybe longer. They have A LOT of experience, you should really take their advice or at least listen to it. As a new comer you want to more or less ask for advise and be willing to accept it and criticism so you can be led down the right path.

There's a reason people here have cigars that are 40-80 years old. They are VERY VERY well maintained.

Originally Posted by Bill86

No it isn't honestly Josh, you just had the bad luck of starting off with one of the more controversial topics in your first few posts or maybe even first post.

You have to understand many people here have been smoking cigars for 10-40 years, maybe longer. They have A LOT of experience, you should really take their advice or at least listen to it. As a new comer you want to more or less ask for advise and be willing to accept it and criticism so you can be led down the right path.

There's a reason people here have cigars that are 40-80 years old. They are VERY VERY well maintained.

There is a very good point to experience and I do value it because I admit not having much. However I didnt just walk down an isle at wally world and say hey this is what I can use for cigars. When I first heard about it I honestly thought it was a noobie prank! Then I did research on it and learned from people with years of experience who learned from others with years of experience using KL. I was still skeptical but figured what the hell and wasted $16 on 8 pounds. I tested it for about a week in a few tupperware containers before I ever introduced it into a humidor. Now I know the KL vs beads is more of a back and forth thing but the way it was attacked in here does annoy me without any other view being allowed. Hell I may even do a side by side by side comparison eventually for more proof of which is better(I would not trust HF or any other bead manufacturer since they have a vested interest in the outcome). Still this is my first day on the site and my views on one thing clearly dont match from what I can tell anyone else. These first interactions with noobs set the tone for them. I went scrolling thru a few letters in the members list there are more than a few whose last day was their first. Now maybe it was they were here for free sticks or other reasons but it can also be the flow of the site and its member that can affect that. Whether the topic is KL vs beads, or humidors vs coolers, cc vs nc or glass top vs hard top, maduro vs connecticut everyone is entitled to those opinions and I think should be allowed to say them rather than team up against them. If you dont agree with those opinions you dont have to read them. Not saying anything bad against any of you tonight and I may have dragged it out a bit but I believe open conversations are good.

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by Josh_Lucky_13

There is a very good point to experience and I do value it because I admit not having much. However I didnt just walk down an isle at wally world and say hey this is what I can use for cigars. When I first heard about it I honestly thought it was a noobie prank! Then I did research on it and learned from people with years of experience who learned from others with years of experience using KL. I was still skeptical but figured what the hell and wasted $16 on 8 pounds. I tested it for about a week in a few tupperware containers before I ever introduced it into a humidor. Now I know the KL vs beads is more of a back and forth thing but the way it was attacked in here does annoy me without any other view being allowed. Hell I may even do a side by side by side comparison eventually for more proof of which is better(I would not trust HF or any other bead manufacturer since they have a vested interest in the outcome). Still this is my first day on the site and my views on one thing clearly dont match from what I can tell anyone else. These first interactions with noobs set the tone for them. I went scrolling thru a few letters in the members list there are more than a few whose last day was their first. Now maybe it was they were here for free sticks or other reasons but it can also be the flow of the site and its member that can affect that. Whether the topic is KL vs beads, or humidors vs coolers, cc vs nc or glass top vs hard top, maduro vs connecticut everyone is entitled to those opinions and I think should be allowed to say them rather than team up against them. If you dont agree with those opinions you dont have to read them. Not saying anything bad against any of you tonight and I may have dragged it out a bit but I believe open conversations are good.

You seem to want to persist in demanding that KL is a better alternative. While you are entitled to your opinion, what I have seen in this thread is you turning a blind eye to opinions that differ from yours. No one has teamed up against you. Don't feel persecuted because many disagree with you. Those that prefer beads do so for a reason or reasons.

When I was new to this hobby/obsession, I had my beliefs and perceptions but I was also humble enough to try and put aside what I thought I knew and learn from the experience of others. And even if I didn't agree, I wouldn't continue to fight the issue. I would just agree to disagree and step away.

Many of us are here to learn from each other. I hope you can do the same.

[Bill86]

Originally Posted by Josh_Lucky_13

There is a very good point to experience and I do value it because I admit not having much. However I didnt just walk down an isle at wally world and say hey this is what I can use for cigars. When I first heard about it I honestly thought it was a noobie prank! Then I did research on it and learned from people with years of experience who learned from others with years of experience using KL. I was still skeptical but figured what the hell and wasted $16 on 8 pounds. I tested it for about a week in a few tupperware containers before I ever introduced it into a humidor. Now I know the KL vs beads is more of a back and forth thing but the way it was attacked in here does annoy me without any other view being allowed. Hell I may even do a side by side by side comparison eventually for more proof of which is better(I would not trust HF or any other bead manufacturer since they have a vested interest in the outcome). Still this is my first day on the site and my views on one thing clearly dont match from what I can tell anyone else. These first interactions with noobs set the tone for them. I went scrolling thru a few letters in the members list there are more than a few whose last day was their first. Now maybe it was they were here for free sticks or other reasons but it can also be the flow of the site and its member that can affect that. Whether the topic is KL vs beads, or humidors vs coolers, cc vs nc or glass top vs hard top, maduro vs connecticut everyone is entitled to those opinions and I think should be allowed to say them rather than team up against them. If you dont agree with those opinions you dont have to read them. Not saying anything bad against any of you tonight and I may have dragged it out a bit but I believe open conversations are good.

Here's the thing you only have a week experience on the KL and you say it already "works". Much more time is needed to really know for sure that it does indeed work.

Also from what people are saying here KL has a problem when the seasons change and whatnot. Now I cannot honestly say for sure that this is the case. But what I will say that the following that has not been mentioned.

1. Generally hygrometers are pieces of crap. Most people would agree that they are VERY temperamental and often do not work at all.
2. Seeing as how you cannot trust these devices you really want to be able to trust in your humidification to keep your cigars in good working order.

That's where we generally have a problem with pretty much anything that isn't beads or active humidification.

If you want to continue discussing this I would please ask you just PM me. I don't mind discussing this with you but I don't think dragging this thread on is going to please the masses. It also seems no one else is really engaged in this topic.

[newcigarz]

Kitty litter, beads, or something else it's all the same.

Just make sure you don't have a bad seal.

[icehog3]

Yes, for some people, their first day was their last. And yes, some because they just came to mooch cigars.

Others, because on their first day they got into a debate over one their beliefs, and continued to tout their weeks of experience over those with decades of experience. Often, they became insulting and were shown the door.

Josh, you have been relatively civil, with the exception of repeatedly saying that the members who disagree with you must be "close-minded" or that they are ganging-up on you. No one is ganging up, each one of us who posted individually disagrees with your idea. I would venture to say that you may be the one who is a little close-minded...maybe people with scores of years, decades doing this might have a little insight beyond weeks of internet research and a week of hands-on?

I hope you may decide to take an unemontional look at this community, we share a lot, learn a lot, laugh a lot. Lots of people who had a rough first couple days are now valued members of the community. Don't take it personally that so many people disagree with your idea, take some time to ponder why, and about how much more practical experience they may have doing this than you do. If you do, you may find this place has a lot to offer you, and eventually for you to offer it. If you don't, my guess your stay here will be short. Good luck.

[Bageland2000]

Originally Posted by Josh_Lucky_13

No what I am trying to do is compare oil to silica beads. Now cheap gas station $0.99 oil does not stand up to $10 royal purple. Yet they both work! The difference between your beads and my KL is virtually the same except for some minor differences. http://talasonline.com/photos/instru...a_gel_info.pdf

Beads where not made for cigars. Neither was KL. Now the biggest difference between the 2 I can tell is beads are high density and regular density KL(why you should use twice as much KL than beads). They both absorb moisture and can maintain RH. It is the moisture absorbency property that led to the development of Silica into KL. Now if you did any research most cats do not react positively to silica KL in fact many cats have to be trained to use this over the clay litter out there. So you point of worried your cat will pee on your sticks is pointless.

Coolers in fact where not meant for cigar storage but many use it and it works well. Should everyone dump their coolers full of sticks and all buy a Waxing Moon Humidor since that is acceptable cigar storage? If you dont like KL that is fine, if you use a humidor over a cooler or vice versa that is fine but the way some of you talk about another method seems closed mined and a little off. If you think your sticks are so valuable that only the best will do then I am all for it and Ed make great humidors. KL works as good for RH as a cooler does for cigar storage. They both save $$ to buy more sticks.

OMG I'm unbelievably impressed that you found an actual scientific research paper to back up your claims. Thanks for putting that time in, definitely did a great deal to help me decide

Edit: ALSO, I'm awestruck at the amount of controversy this caused! I guess when political discussion is outlawed people have to get up in arms about something!!! When it comes down to it everyone here is in a community and no one wants to see new members making decision that could potentially ruin cigars. Long live CA

[bobarian]

Originally Posted by Bageland2000

OMG I'm unbelievably impressed that you found an actual scientific research paper to back up your claims. Thanks for putting that time in, definitely did a great deal to help me decide
tim
Edit: ALSO, I'm awestruck at the amount of controversy this caused! I guess when political discussion is outlawed people have to get up in arms about something!!! When it comes down to it everyone here is in a community and no one wants to see new members making decision that could potentially ruin cigars. Long live CA

If you have concluded that unconditioned KL is an acceptable medium for regulation of Rh then you are sadly mistaken. Conditioning to a specific Rh above 50% requires both time and a hygrometer that is much more accurate than the typical digital home hygrometer. Also, the amount of KL needed is approximately 4 to 5 times the amount of Rh beads. Search some of Shilala's research in this forum for more details. KL does a great job of absorbing moisture, but unless you like your cigars at 50%, then you have a lot of work to do before KL will release moisture at a more desireable Rh for cigars.

[Bageland2000]

Originally Posted by bobarian

If you have concluded that unconditioned KL is an acceptable medium for regulation of Rh then you are sadly mistaken. Conditioning to a specific Rh above 50% requires both time and a hygrometer that is much more accurate than the typical digital home hygrometer. Also, the amount of KL needed is approximately 4 to 5 times the amount of Rh beads. Search some of Shilala's research in this forum for more details. KL does a great job of absorbing moisture, but unless you like your cigars at 50%, then you have a lot of work to do before KL will release moisture at a more desireable Rh for cigars.

I'm hearing the "look what you did you little jerk" from Uncle frank in "Home Alone." Definitely didn't mean to restart this thread I have read the whole article and every post in the thread and made up my mind. I won't say what that is though! not going to do anything to get this restarted

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Bageland2000

OMG I'm unbelievably impressed that you found an actual scientific research paper to back up your claims. Thanks for putting that time in, definitely did a great deal to help me decide

Josh_Lucky_13 hasn't been back for over 5 months, so I am afraid he won't be here to hear your praise.

[Bageland2000]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Josh_Lucky_13 hasn't been back for over 5 months, so I am afraid he won't be here to hear your praise.

His name and his number of posts say that he's gone for good

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Bageland2000

His name and his number of posts say that he's gone for good

Originally Posted by icehog3

I hope you may decide to take an unemontional look at this community, we share a lot, learn a lot, laugh a lot. Lots of people who had a rough first couple days are now valued members of the community. Don't take it personally that so many people disagree with your idea, take some time to ponder why, and about how much more practical experience they may have doing this than you do. If you do, you may find this place has a lot to offer you, and eventually for you to offer it. If you don't, my guess your stay here will be short. Good luck.

Looks like I called it. Too bad, many have found their niche in our great community.

[Bageland2000]

I love it here, and by the number of YOUR posts, so do you! hahahaha

[bobarian]

Originally Posted by Bageland2000

I'm hearing the "look what you did you little jerk" from Uncle frank in "Home Alone." Definitely didn't mean to restart this thread I have read the whole article and every post in the thread and made up my mind. I won't say what that is though! not going to do anything to get this restarted

Just saying that the comments in this thread are not the only ones to consider. Many use KL, many use PG solution and a sponge. Like cigars, enjoy whatever you choose.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Bageland2000

OMG I'm unbelievably impressed that you found an actual scientific research paper to back up your claims.

No, he didn't.

He found a paper on silica gel for preservation of museum exhibits and from the appearances of his post he only skimmed it, if even that.

If you follow it and understand what you are dealing with, something as haphazardly manufactured as kitty litter, the most popular being "Exquisicat Cat Piss Soaker Plus" hardly even qualifies as "RD Gel" which isn't even close to the "Art-Sorb" "Rhapid-Gel" - these are industry standard Rh maintenance mediums.

As one goes through the paper, the author points out flaw after flaw in "RD Gel".

Originally Posted by Bageland2000

have read the whole article and every post in the thread and made up my mind.

Reading and understanding are two different things.

[Bageland2000]

Originally Posted by bobarian

Just saying that the comments in this thread are not the only ones to consider. Many use KL, many use PG solution and a sponge. Like cigars, enjoy whatever you choose.

For sure! Glad to have so many helpful voices